| Author |
Message |
Alex Gibson
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:15 am Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.15.01.01.42.957614@att.bizzzz...
| Quote: | On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:05:32 +0000, Scott Alfter wrote:
In article <pan.2005.10.14.02.52.27.519738@att.bizzzz>,
keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:34:08 +0000, Scott Alfter wrote:
In article <pqask1dio0nuip9atb9p4h4j8k9027pl0h@4ax.com>,
Trent <none@dev.nul.pissoff> wrote:
On 12 Oct 2005 17:46:25 GMT salfter@salfter.diespammersdie.dyndns.org
(Scott Alfter) wrote in Message id:
434d4bf1$0$28781$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>:
(One of these days, I'll build a controller for my beer fridges so I
can
free up the Apple IIs that are currently running them (a IIGS on one
and a
IIe on the other). To simplify the software-porting effort, it'll
most
likely be built around a 6502, or something compatible with it. It's
not
like monitoring the temperature and switching the compressor on and
off
requires dual Opterons or something insane like that.)
Even a 6502 is overkill. Why not use a simple 8 pin device like this?
http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2735
The only additional thing you'd need aside from a power source is a
transistor, a diode, and a relay. You can program the device with a
parallel port.
1) It doesn't appear to have an ability to enforce a minimum off-time.
If
you repeatedly turn the compressor back on too soon after it has
shut off,
that'll shorten its life. Choosing setpoints that are far-enough
apart
might minimize this, but that would result in the temperature not
being
as tightly-regulated as it could be.
Get a PIC.
2) It doesn't appear to have a way to slowly ramp the temperature
up/down.
If the fridge is at 50 degrees and you want it to go up to 70 for a
diacetyl rest and then down to 35 for lagering, you want those
temperature changes to be made slowly (at a rate of maybe 1 degree
per
hour).
Get a PIC.
I already have the tools and the know-how (acquired over the past 20
years)
to code for the 6502. I know squat about PICs, and don't have any
assemblers and/or compilers for them.
Look for 'em. They're free. Disclaimer: I've never done PICs either
but have done several 8051 designs. If I had to do some of them again, it
would be a PIC. 6502? You *must* be kidding!
|
Why a pic ?, the new Philips lpc21xx series are around the same price
more features , 16/32 bit, , more processing power etc plus armgcc
Philips just announced the lpc2101, 2102 and 2103 at US$1.5 in large
quantity. 70MHz , 2K ram 8k flash, 6 pwm, 8x 10bit adc, 2 usart , 2x i2c
serial boot loader
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/news/content/file_1188.html
http://www.standardics.philips.com/products/lpc2000/new/~LPC2101/
For a cross platform tools and ide use armgcc + eclipse
http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/ARM/ARM_Cross_Development_with_Eclipse.pdf
http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/ARM/sample_programs.zip
or
http://www.newmicros.com/download/appnotes/ARM/TiniARM_Dev_Eclipse.pdf
http://www.newmicros.com/store/product_manual/GNUARM/GNUfiles.zip
http://www.hitex.co.uk/arm/lpc2000book/index.html
Or one of the many other arm7 chips
Sam7 from Atmel
ST STR711
Oki ML67Q5003
Aduc7020 from Analog devices (1Msps adc)
One of new micros tini arm or plug an arm modules
http://www.newmicros.com/cgi-bin/store/order.cgi?form=prod&cat=tiniarm
http://www.newmicros.com/cgi-bin/store/order.cgi?form=prod&cat=plugarm
Or one of the many arm7 boards available from Olimex
(easier to buy from Sparkfun)
<http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?rec=0&shop=1&cart=429930&cat=73&keywords=&match_criteria=&searchCat=>
Or any of the many other arm7 boards
www.lpctools.com
http://www.armkits.com/Product/productmain.asp
http://www.micronix.ca/sbc213x_main_new.htm
Alex |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
keith
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:07:57 +1000, Alex Gibson wrote:
"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.15.01.01.42.957614@att.bizzzz...
| Quote: | On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:05:32 +0000, Scott Alfter wrote:
In article <pan.2005.10.14.02.52.27.519738@att.bizzzz>,
keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:34:08 +0000, Scott Alfter wrote:
snip |
| Quote: | Get a PIC.
I already have the tools and the know-how (acquired over the past 20
years)
to code for the 6502. I know squat about PICs, and don't have any
assemblers and/or compilers for them.
Look for 'em. They're free. Disclaimer: I've never done PICs either
but have done several 8051 designs. If I had to do some of them again, it
would be a PIC. 6502? You *must* be kidding!
Why a pic ?, the new Philips lpc21xx series are around the same price
more features , 16/32 bit, , more processing power etc plus armgcc
|
Whatever. Were I designing a new application I'd likely look at them. I
wouldn't even consider a 6502.
--
Keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oliver S.
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
Heeeeey, aren't you able to quote properly?
That's really
ANNOYING ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oliver S.
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
| Quote: | That's one of the things that the ability to set hard per-thread processor
affinity (to supplement the default soft affinity) is for - features supported
in Win2K if not earlier.
|
Yes, of course, but in most casess this isn't done.
And there's a cooler API like SetThreadAffinityMask: SetThreadIdealProcessor()! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jason Ozolins
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:51 am Post subject:
Re: VT on portable systems (Was: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
| Quote: | Oliver S. wrote:
Even the upcoming dual-core incarnation of the Pentium-M won't
be capable of x86-64 and it seems that this version even miss VT
technology; but both are not strong arguments for Notebook-systems.
On the latter point, I know of a bunch of people using virtualization
technologies on their notebooks (vmware, xen, user-mode linux, etc.,)
because it means they only have to carry one computer around and it
matters less which one it is.
and developers are increasingly using portable systems.
maybe I just have lots of weird friends.
|
Most programmers I know have a laptop. Lots of the Sun OS folks who are
blogging have mentioned their use of laptops too. And any developer would
find some use in good virtualization support... but this is probably a small
fraction of the people buying laptops.
-Jason =:^( |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jens Meyer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:06 am Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
| Quote: | Processor affinity issues have been dealt with for many years.
|
If you have a large number of threads and don't use processor-affinity,
thread-migration is very frequent and degrades the performance. So the
usual software that doesn't deal with hard affinities (or weak affinities
like with the SetIdealProcessor-API of Win32/64) will have problems with
that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alex Gibson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:15 am Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
"Oliver S." <Follow.Me@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:dit64p$6pj$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
| Quote: | Heeeeey, aren't you able to quote properly?
That's really
ANNOYING !
|
What is annoying ?
From the previous post I only cut out the pgp junk.
Look at the other previous posts.
The rest was relevant especially the controller for beer fridge part.
Alex |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jan Vorbrüggen
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
| Quote: | And for other systems you'd have to use such an API instead of stupid
malloc()ing.
|
- What does malloc() have to do with it? sbrk(), yes, but not malloc().
- The implementations I have seen tell the OS to (preferentially) allocate
physical memory on the local node (which can have more than one processor
or memory unit). Memory allocation syscalls itself are unaffected. Indeed,
such an allocation hint will usually be set at process creation.
| Quote: | - A thread will usually get migrated from one CPU to another sooner or
later (if it hasn't fixed CPU-affinity)
|
That, of course, cannot be allowed to happen, otherwise such a memory
allocation optimization makes little sense.
| Quote: | - Memory allocated by one thread might be used more by another thread
running on another CPU.
|
That's why you should have gang scheduling available as well. Nonetheless,
even without it, one thread might be the major use of the data, and it can
make sense to put the data as near to it as possible.
Jan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony Hill
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:15 am Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:35:25 GMT, Bill Davidsen
<davidsen@deathstar.prodigy.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Ketil Malde wrote:
"Nathan Bates" <nathanbates99@yahoo.com> writes:
For the price of a high end Pentium M, I can get a dual core AMD where
each core has equivalent integer performance and much better FP. Sure
Pentium M is attractive for some purposes, but total world domination
is still a way off, IMO.
And you can heat your house in the winter.
|
LOL! I *WISH* I could heat my tiny 1-bedroom apartment with the power
of even a dual-core Athlon64 X2!
| Quote: | The P-M is really low power
compared to Opteron, and of course P4 is in a class by itself for heat.
The SMP and FP issues are supposedly being addressed soon, as will
EMT64, current advantage is power. AMD realized this and recently
offered a mobil chip to be more competitive, so I guess AMD saw the need.
|
They saw the need and solved it in a rather easy way, they used the
same sort of low-power manufacturing techniques that Intel used in the
Pentium-M and got a Turion. The main reason why the Pentium-M has
much lower power consumption than the Athlon64 has VERY little to do
with differences in the actual cores of the chips, it's mainly due to
the target market and trade-offs in manufacturing.
Sacrifice top speed and yields and you can get a chip with lower power
consumption. Tweak the knob the other way and you can get higher
yields but at the expense of higher power consumption, fine for your
Sempron/Celeron line. A slightly different tweak gives you maximum
clock speeds for your Athlon64 FX and Pentium Extreme Edition chips.
| Quote: | I don't think the P-M is going to make everything else go away, but at
the moment the play is in low power, no matter what the O.P. thinks.
|
Aside from laptops, the play is NOT in low power, it is in performance
per watt and per $. If low-power was all that mattered than Transmeta
and VIA might have managed more than 1% market share between them.
The Pentium-M is a decent base to build on, but it's not going to
dominate the desktop world in it's current form. Of course, the
Athlon64 is also a rather good base to build on, and while it similar
might struggle to dominate the laptop world with just process tweaks,
it's sitting rather pretty in the desktop world.
-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Erno Kuusela
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20@yahoo.ca> writes:
| Quote: | On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:35:25 GMT, Bill Davidsen
davidsen@deathstar.prodigy.com> wrote:
Ketil Malde wrote:
"Nathan Bates" <nathanbates99@yahoo.com> writes:
For the price of a high end Pentium M, I can get a dual core AMD where
each core has equivalent integer performance and much better FP. Sure
Pentium M is attractive for some purposes, but total world domination
is still a way off, IMO.
And you can heat your house in the winter.
LOL! I *WISH* I could heat my tiny 1-bedroom apartment with the power
of even a dual-core Athlon64 X2!
|
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_x2-3800+/10.shtml says a dualcore
2 ghz athlon64 idles at 11.6 watts even without frequency/voltage scaling.
-- erno |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ken Hagan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
Erno Kuusela wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20@yahoo.ca> writes:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:35:25 GMT, Bill Davidsen
davidsen@deathstar.prodigy.com> wrote:
Ketil Malde wrote:
And you can heat your house in the winter.
LOL! I *WISH* I could heat my tiny 1-bedroom apartment with the power
of even a dual-core Athlon64 X2!
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_x2-3800+/10.shtml says a dualcore
2 ghz athlon64 idles at 11.6 watts even without frequency/voltage scaling.
|
And according to
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/article320000.ece
that probably means you can run one of them off a house.
Of course, that's probably only true in sunny Nottingham. :) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alex Johnson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
Erno Kuusela wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20@yahoo.ca> writes:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:35:25 GMT, Bill Davidsen
davidsen@deathstar.prodigy.com> wrote:
Ketil Malde wrote:
"Nathan Bates" <nathanbates99@yahoo.com> writes:
For the price of a high end Pentium M, I can get a dual core AMD where
each core has equivalent integer performance and much better FP. Sure
Pentium M is attractive for some purposes, but total world domination
is still a way off, IMO.
And you can heat your house in the winter.
LOL! I *WISH* I could heat my tiny 1-bedroom apartment with the power
of even a dual-core Athlon64 X2!
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_x2-3800+/10.shtml says a dualcore
2 ghz athlon64 idles at 11.6 watts even without frequency/voltage scaling.
-- erno
|
I find that hard to believe since the leakage alone on the Pentium 4 is
somewhere over 20W (details and sources elude me at the moment). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bill Todd
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
Alex Johnson wrote:
....
| Quote: | http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_x2-3800+/10.shtml says a dualcore
2 ghz athlon64 idles at 11.6 watts even without frequency/voltage
scaling.
-- erno
I find that hard to believe since the leakage alone on the Pentium 4 is
somewhere over 20W (details and sources elude me at the moment).
|
The Pentium4 is a power pig with (if you're talking about Prescott) a
30+ stage pipeline (as contrasted with IIRC 12 - 14 stages in Athlon64,
which IIRC is comparable to Banias/Dothan's). I suspect the Athlon64
referred to is a low-voltage model, 2 GHz is getting close to the bottom
of its clock range these days, and the use of SOI should cut its leakage
even more compared with the Intel products.
So what's so hard to believe?
- bill |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bill Todd
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
Bill Todd wrote:
....
I suspect the Athlon64
| Quote: | referred to is a low-voltage model,
|
Whoops - if it's a vanilla 3800+ I guess not (unless *all* 3800+s are:
they were introduced after the original faster models so they could be,
but I haven't heard any suggestion that they are). But the other
comments stand.
- bill |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rob Stow
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:01 am Post subject:
Re: Pentium M to become THE CPU |
|
|
Bill Todd wrote:
| Quote: | Bill Todd wrote:
...
I suspect the Athlon64
referred to is a low-voltage model,
Whoops - if it's a vanilla 3800+ I guess not (unless *all* 3800+s are:
they were introduced after the original faster models so they could be,
but I haven't heard any suggestion that they are). But the other
comments stand.
|
I think it is a vanilla chip, not a low-voltage model.
I have a friend with an brand-new Athlon X2-4400+ system that has
a metered ThermalTake PSU. It has 3 GB of RAM and a temporary
Matrox G550 PCI video card. At Idle and full-tilt is eats 39 W
and 159W respectively. At boot-time with the hard drives all
spinning up it peaks at 193W. If you assume that half of that
39W idle power is used by CPU, that is still only 20 W for a chip
that has twice as much L2 per core as the X2-3800+.
It will be interesting to see the new power consumption numbers
change when his PCI-E video card arrives. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in