| Author |
Message |
Keith
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:29:35 -0700, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
| Quote: |
Ketil Malde <ketil+news@ii.uib.no> writes:
Certainly a good point. There was a bit of commotion in the banking
business here when a new bank was established without any office you
could actually visit, or tellers, or anything - it's all on the net.
I've happily used it for years now.
BTW, I'm fairly certain the deprecation of cheques, and introduction
of ATM/debit cards have *reduced* fraud a lot, but I couldn't find the
relevant statistics anywhere. Similarly, it wouldn't suprise me if
the deprectaion of cash (even the cafeteria lets me pay with my card,
it's only the coke vending machine left) to have that effect on crimes
like pickpocketing and robbery, but that would be harder to measure.
part of the issue was that financial institutions rather than covering
the costs of performing the operations with checks by charging the
person ... was able to recoup the costs with the 5-7 day float. the
issue with atm is that the transfer is immediate and there is no
float. with check21 (fed. reserve mandate for electronic check
imaging) and movement to same-day clearing, the float starts to
disappear in checking also. at which point, with float disappearing,
they will have to start charging for checks processing also.
there was big issue in e-check pilot by fstc (digitally signed
electronic checks) ... whether the electronic check clearing (transfer
of value) went thru the atm network (immediate transfer) or the ach
network (overnight settlement). settling thru the ach network, allowed
for a day's float. the problem was that consumers had gotten so used
to the perception of "free" (with actual revenue for the bank coming
from the lost interest to the customer thru the float) ... that it was
felt that it wouldn't be possible to educate consumers on there really
is no free lunch. simple economics ... doing an operation costs
something. the revenue to cover the costs of that operation has to
come from somewhere.
|
I guess the local banks that have advertized "free checking for life" are
going to have problems when they start losing money.
--
Keith |
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Keith
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:56:35 -0600, Del Cecchi wrote:
| Quote: |
"Bill Davidsen" <davidsen@deathstar.prodigy.com> wrote in message
news:DX0of.3897$nA2.1661@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
Sander Vesik wrote:
In comp.arch Stephen Fuld <s.fuld@pleaseremove.att.net> wrote:
"Rob Stow" <rob.stow@sasktel.net> wrote in message
A former co-worker of mine wears a bunch of IT hats for the Royal
Bank of Canada. RBC is Canada's largest bank and apparently their US
operations put them up there with some of the larger American banks
also.
They have mainframes running mostly Unix, and their apps are decidely
*not* legacy apps.
What non-Linux Unix varient runs on Z series, or have we subtlely
switched the topic here? If it is not Z series, or one of the other
"traditional" mainframe systems from the "BUNCH", what architecture s
it? I have heard a lot of systems called "mainframes", where that
terminology is at best, "in dispute".
Yep, but what a large portion of banks do run these days are those
"mainframes" of disputed terminology.
The banking industry has simply changed too much for them to continue
using legacy apps - they have little software that is more than five
years old.
On what systems are they running check processing? I am not aware of
anyone besides IBM and Unisys who make MICR readers, etc.
Is check processing really a significat part of banking any more?
I would guess that check processing is one of the driving factors in
funding for OCR research. Really bad innput, highly important to get
right, large volume. One more place big business is screwing the
customer, now that banks don't have to return your check but can
provide some transaction record instead, you have no piece of paper to
bring to court if that becomes necessary.
Without a way to prove what was on the check you have more problems and
the banks have less cost.
--
bill davidsen
SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com
The IBM MidAmerica Employee Federal Credit Union, now the Think Federal
Credit Union, hasn't returned checks for the last 30 years. They use the
checks with the built in carbon which, together with the account
statement make pretty good proof. And as a last resort you can get hard
copy of the stored image for a nominal fee.
|
Same thing with the Mid-Hudson Valley CU (or whatever it's called -
the old P'ok and Kingston CUs now have indistinguishable names). It's
been since the mid-late '70s that we've had checks returned to us.
IIRC, even the IRS allows the carbon with statement, as long as the
sequences make sense.
| Quote: |
Only had to go to the hardcopy once.
|
I had to get one once, but that was right after the system was implemented
(a *long* time ago). I don't even remember the specifics.
--
Keith |
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David Brown
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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Del Cecchi wrote:
| Quote: |
And about the wonders of those debit cards....
DECEMBER 14, 2005 (COMPUTERWORLD) - A victim of the recent Sam's Club
security breach suggests that fraudsters may have stolen credit card
information by using illegal "card-skimming" devices attached to the
pumps at the company's gas stations. The fraudulent activity may also
have been going on for a longer period than that suggested by the
wholesale giant, and it may affect thousands of people (see "Update:
Security breach at Sam's Club exposes credit card data").
Sam's Club, a division of Bentonville, Ark.-based Wal-Mart Stores Inc. ,
said in a brief Dec. 2 statement that it was investigating a security
breach that had exposed the credit card data of an unspecified number of
customers who bought fuel at its gas stations between Sept. 21 and Oct.
2. The company said it was alerted to the problem by credit card issuers
whose customers were complaining of fraudulent charges on their statements.
Apart from saying that "electronic systems and databases used inside its
stores" were not involved, Sam's Club officials have refused to disclose
what happened. They have not returned repeated telephone calls for comment.
The breach prompted the Alabama Credit Union (ACU) to block and reissue
debit cards to about 500 of its customers after it learned of the
problem last week. The ACU was alerted to the breach by Credit Union
National Association Inc. , according to Kayce Bell, chief operating
officer at the Tuscaloosa, Ala.-based credit union.
more at link
http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,107067,00.html?source=NLT_AM&nid=107067
Looks like thousands and thousands of folks. And their pins too. I
hope that the contract with the issuer was nice and solid.
|
I don't know anything more about this case than what you've written
here, but this reads very much as "my dog ate my homework". Perhaps I'm
overly sceptical, but this sounds like Sam's Club had poor security on
their financial systems, and kept a list or database of essential credit
card data in one place (many companies do, placing the convenience far
above security or customers' privacy). This list got stolen (either an
inside job or an outside job). This has happened to companies before -
it's a public relations disaster. Blaming advanced fraudsters with
"card-skimming" devices turns it around - suddenly Sam's Club is the
victim, and customers and their issuing banks are to blame for using
cards open to such fraud.
I'm not saying card-skimming doesn't happen, or doing anything more than
speculating in this case. I just don't think it is a clear example
without a great deal more evidence. |
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David Brown
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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Keith wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:43:46 +0000, Casper H. S. Dik wrote:
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@deathstar.prodigy.com> writes:
I never needed to mail a check my whole life (except once to the US :-).
You cut your own grass, repair your own furnace, don't need a
babysitter, and never have a kid shovel your walk... or you are really
trusting and pay cash for all of these services. Because in the US
people want to get paid for small services, and electronic transfer is
either inconvenient or just not accepted.
Everything is using either ATM cards/cash (shops) or electronic
funds transfers. There's also a form of "authorization to directly
debit" which allows you to get funds directly.
...and keep getting funds, over, and over, and over, and over... AOL is
famous for such things. I had an ISP (not AOL, BTW) keep dinging me for
a year after I dropped them. Sueing them wasn't worth the hassle, so they
got away with it. No thanks.
|
I can cancel direct debits at any time - it took you a year to cancel
the direct debit authorization? If your banks give you no more control
than that, I can understand your scepticism. |
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George Macdonald
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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On 15 Dec 2005 12:55:02 -0800, dgay@barnowl.research.intel-research.net
wrote:
| Quote: |
George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> writes:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:56:33 GMT, Bill Davidsen
davidsen@deathstar.prodigy.com> wrote:
George Macdonald wrote:
I'm sure it's also a relief to to be able to bypass those sleazy
money-changers at frontiers & airports.:-)... at least in the Euro-zone.
Those people are emm, irritating - came across it at Gatwick last year
where they would not do an exchange of US$ traveller cheques into Euros
directly and wanted their double take.... bastards.
I'm not sure what's available to us now in the U.S. in the way of
international transfers from our on-line banking; I know that in the past,
when requesting a transfer to a specific account in a foreign country, they
overtly misrouted to the point of abuse.
You can buy International Money Orders, at banks (and I think the post
office).
I *am* familiar with the experience of internationsl transfer of moderately
large sums of of money.... you?
It's a pain to do to/from the US?
|
It can be but it varies according to the competence/intent of the bank and
even the individual at the bank whom you deal with - a misroute at the
start can lead to a tortuous path and cost you a lot of $$.
| Quote: | And quite easy within Europe?
|
It *can* get difficult even in Europe, e.g. if there's even a suspicion
it's a VAT applicable business transaction - as usual the bureaucrats in
both countries want *their* pound of VAT and neither seems to want to look
at the rules... which are unfathomable anyway. I've seen cases where a
single transfer had to be divided up into portions to accomodate each
country's claim according to source, destination and usage for the funds.
| Quote: | (of course,
I'm not sure what moderately large means here...)
|
Moderate for a person to person transaction - say several thousands of
$$... enough to hurt if things get misrouted through 4 banks instead of 2 -
the fact that the damage can't be undone seeems to be of no concern to
anyone in the banking industry!
| Quote: | This thread seems to
have had a large dose of "This is the way things are done in the US, so
it must be the right way".
|
Funny, I see it the other way and the despite and self-esteem are fairly
well balanced: derisive remarks about "grubby bits of paper" are a little
excessive IMO; in fact from my POV, most of the Euro-centric view is based
on ignorance of U.S. habits, infrastructure and even regulations on
interstate banking, which have certainly impeded progress here, sometimes
for good reason... sometimes not. I suppose it's early in their little
federal experiment so it could be that things will deteriorate there too.
My guess is that will coincide fairly closely with the EC's decision to
offer itself the direct taxation "present".:-)
Bottom line: in the U.S. we still have cheques because there are enough
people who want/demand them, simply because to them -- I include myself
here and have insisted that my bank change the offered direct debit card
back to an ATM card -- the direct debit system is obviously seriously
flawed in its risks to the customer.
--
Rgds, George Macdonald |
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David Brown
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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George Macdonald wrote:
| Quote: | On 15 Dec 2005 12:55:02 -0800, dgay@barnowl.research.intel-research.net
wrote:
This thread seems to
have had a large dose of "This is the way things are done in the US, so
it must be the right way".
Funny, I see it the other way and the despite and self-esteem are fairly
well balanced: derisive remarks about "grubby bits of paper" are a little
excessive IMO; in fact from my POV, most of the Euro-centric view is based
on ignorance of U.S. habits, infrastructure and even regulations on
interstate banking, which have certainly impeded progress here, sometimes
for good reason... sometimes not. I suppose it's early in their little
federal experiment so it could be that things will deteriorate there too.
My guess is that will coincide fairly closely with the EC's decision to
offer itself the direct taxation "present".:-)
Bottom line: in the U.S. we still have cheques because there are enough
people who want/demand them, simply because to them -- I include myself
here and have insisted that my bank change the offered direct debit card
back to an ATM card -- the direct debit system is obviously seriously
flawed in its risks to the customer.
|
I'm seeing a pattern here - as a broad generalisation, people in the US
want to keep their cheques because they don't trust their banks, they
don't trust their shopkeepers, they don't trust their customers, and
they believe (rightly or wrongly - I'm not fully convinced either way)
that cheques give them more protection against fraud, better security,
or an easier way to deal with problems when they occur. Europeans want
electronic transfers, direct debits, chip-and-pin, and other such
solutions because they are much faster and easier (and, again depending
on opinion, more secure), which they are happy to use because they *do*
trust the banks, shops, and customers. So maybe both systems are best
for the people who use them. |
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Casper H.S. Dik
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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|
Mark Horsburgh <Mark.Horsburgh@cantab.net> writes:
| Quote: | In the UK it's even better than that. If I see a transaction from an
authorized direct debitor that I don't like, I can simply ask my bank to
give me a refund - something they are _required_ to do immediately
without even consulting the organisation that originated the bad
transaction.
|
Same in the Netherlands, with a 30 day limit but only for automatic,
recurring and not for one-off automatic debits.
There's a proposal to make this possible for a 90 day limit EU-wide.
(There's an interesting twist when the debitor goes bankrupt; you
can get the money back from the bank immediately if the 30 day
period hasn't passed which is especially useful if they failed
to provide the service or goods you paid for; ordinarily, as a small
creditor you would have no recourse whatsoever)
Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth. |
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Mark Horsburgh
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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On 16 Dec 2005 09:26:09 +0100, David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Keith wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:43:46 +0000, Casper H. S. Dik wrote:
...and keep getting funds, over, and over, and over, and over... AOL is
famous for such things. I had an ISP (not AOL, BTW) keep dinging me for
a year after I dropped them. Sueing them wasn't worth the hassle, so they
got away with it. No thanks.
I can cancel direct debits at any time - it took you a year to cancel
the direct debit authorization? If your banks give you no more control
than that, I can understand your scepticism.
|
In the UK it's even better than that. If I see a transaction from an
authorized direct debitor that I don't like, I can simply ask my bank to
give me a refund - something they are _required_ to do immediately
without even consulting the organisation that originated the bad
transaction. It's then up to the originator to chase me for the money. I
don't have any regular bills that I don't pay this way and it's far less
hassle than any other means of payment.
See <http://www.bacs.co.uk/bpsl/directdebit>
Mark |
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David Brown
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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Casper H.S. Dik wrote:
| Quote: | Mark Horsburgh <Mark.Horsburgh@cantab.net> writes:
In the UK it's even better than that. If I see a transaction from an
authorized direct debitor that I don't like, I can simply ask my bank to
give me a refund - something they are _required_ to do immediately
without even consulting the organisation that originated the bad
transaction.
Same in the Netherlands, with a 30 day limit but only for automatic,
recurring and not for one-off automatic debits.
There's a proposal to make this possible for a 90 day limit EU-wide.
(There's an interesting twist when the debitor goes bankrupt; you
can get the money back from the bank immediately if the 30 day
period hasn't passed which is especially useful if they failed
to provide the service or goods you paid for; ordinarily, as a small
creditor you would have no recourse whatsoever)
Casper
|
I'd guess Norway's rules are similar - having never had the need to
cancel a direct debit (I don't use them much - with internet banking
being so easy, there's not such much call for direct debit), I don't
know the details. In fact, if the EU has proposed a rule you can bet
Norway is the first to implement it - we implement more EU regulations
than any member of the EU ! |
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Keith
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
|
|
In article <43a2ca91$1@news.wineasy.se>,
david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com says...
| Quote: | George Macdonald wrote:
On 15 Dec 2005 12:55:02 -0800, dgay@barnowl.research.intel-research.net
wrote:
This thread seems to
have had a large dose of "This is the way things are done in the US, so
it must be the right way".
Funny, I see it the other way and the despite and self-esteem are fairly
well balanced: derisive remarks about "grubby bits of paper" are a little
excessive IMO; in fact from my POV, most of the Euro-centric view is based
on ignorance of U.S. habits, infrastructure and even regulations on
interstate banking, which have certainly impeded progress here, sometimes
for good reason... sometimes not. I suppose it's early in their little
federal experiment so it could be that things will deteriorate there too.
My guess is that will coincide fairly closely with the EC's decision to
offer itself the direct taxation "present".:-)
Bottom line: in the U.S. we still have cheques because there are enough
people who want/demand them, simply because to them -- I include myself
here and have insisted that my bank change the offered direct debit card
back to an ATM card -- the direct debit system is obviously seriously
flawed in its risks to the customer.
I'm seeing a pattern here - as a broad generalisation, people in the US
want to keep their cheques because they don't trust their banks, they
don't trust their shopkeepers, they don't trust their customers, and
they believe (rightly or wrongly - I'm not fully convinced either way)
that cheques give them more protection against fraud, better security,
or an easier way to deal with problems when they occur. Europeans want
electronic transfers, direct debits, chip-and-pin, and other such
solutions because they are much faster and easier (and, again depending
on opinion, more secure), which they are happy to use because they *do*
trust the banks, shops, and customers.
|
It's not so much trust as cost (at least for me). I *expect* a
free checking account with free transactions. If there is some
fancy new feechur that they're going to charge me money for (e.g.
on-line banking), I don't want it. I'm not afraid of debit cards,
but I'm not about to pay to use them. I don't really want to buy a
brew at the pub on plastic either. Cash is king.
| Quote: | So maybe both systems are best for the people who use them.
Indeed, but not as simple as you make it out. |
--
Keith |
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Keith
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
|
|
In article <43a27a21$1@news.wineasy.se>,
david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com says...
| Quote: | Keith wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:43:46 +0000, Casper H. S. Dik wrote:
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@deathstar.prodigy.com> writes:
I never needed to mail a check my whole life (except once to the US :-).
You cut your own grass, repair your own furnace, don't need a
babysitter, and never have a kid shovel your walk... or you are really
trusting and pay cash for all of these services. Because in the US
people want to get paid for small services, and electronic transfer is
either inconvenient or just not accepted.
Everything is using either ATM cards/cash (shops) or electronic
funds transfers. There's also a form of "authorization to directly
debit" which allows you to get funds directly.
...and keep getting funds, over, and over, and over, and over... AOL is
famous for such things. I had an ISP (not AOL, BTW) keep dinging me for
a year after I dropped them. Sueing them wasn't worth the hassle, so they
got away with it. No thanks.
I can cancel direct debits at any time - it took you a year to cancel
the direct debit authorization? If your banks give you no more control
than that, I can understand your scepticism.
Authorization? I gave no one "authorization". Once someone has |
your account number they can charge whatever they decide to. It's
fraud, but hey...
--
Keith |
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Del Cecchi
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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David Brown wrote:
| Quote: | Del Cecchi wrote:
And about the wonders of those debit cards....
DECEMBER 14, 2005 (COMPUTERWORLD) - A victim of the recent Sam's Club
security breach suggests that fraudsters may have stolen credit card
information by using illegal "card-skimming" devices attached to the
pumps at the company's gas stations. The fraudulent activity may also
have been going on for a longer period than that suggested by the
wholesale giant, and it may affect thousands of people (see "Update:
Security breach at Sam's Club exposes credit card data").
Sam's Club, a division of Bentonville, Ark.-based Wal-Mart Stores Inc.
, said in a brief Dec. 2 statement that it was investigating a
security breach that had exposed the credit card data of an
unspecified number of customers who bought fuel at its gas stations
between Sept. 21 and Oct. 2. The company said it was alerted to the
problem by credit card issuers whose customers were complaining of
fraudulent charges on their statements.
Apart from saying that "electronic systems and databases used inside
its stores" were not involved, Sam's Club officials have refused to
disclose what happened. They have not returned repeated telephone
calls for comment.
The breach prompted the Alabama Credit Union (ACU) to block and
reissue debit cards to about 500 of its customers after it learned of
the problem last week. The ACU was alerted to the breach by Credit
Union National Association Inc. , according to Kayce Bell, chief
operating officer at the Tuscaloosa, Ala.-based credit union.
more at link
http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,107067,00.html?source=NLT_AM&nid=107067
Looks like thousands and thousands of folks. And their pins too. I
hope that the contract with the issuer was nice and solid.
I don't know anything more about this case than what you've written
here, but this reads very much as "my dog ate my homework". Perhaps I'm
overly sceptical, but this sounds like Sam's Club had poor security on
their financial systems, and kept a list or database of essential credit
card data in one place (many companies do, placing the convenience far
above security or customers' privacy). This list got stolen (either an
inside job or an outside job). This has happened to companies before -
it's a public relations disaster. Blaming advanced fraudsters with
"card-skimming" devices turns it around - suddenly Sam's Club is the
victim, and customers and their issuing banks are to blame for using
cards open to such fraud.
I'm not saying card-skimming doesn't happen, or doing anything more than
speculating in this case. I just don't think it is a clear example
without a great deal more evidence.
|
I guess it depends if the claimed devices are hypothetical or if Sam's
has evidence they actually existed, eg one of the devices. It seems to
me that they would be foolish to float this story if they had no actual
evicence. People say a lot of things about Walmart Corp, but foolish
doesn't seem to be one of them.
--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.” |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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Del Cecchi <cecchinospam@us.ibm.com> writes:
| Quote: | And about the wonders of those debit cards.... DECEMBER 14, 2005
(COMPUTERWORLD) - A victim of the recent Sam's Club security breach
suggests that fraudsters may have stolen credit card information by
using illegal "card-skimming" devices attached to the pumps at the
company's gas stations. The fraudulent activity may also have been
going on for a longer period than that suggested by the wholesale
giant, and it may affect thousands of people (see "Update:
|
This happened in Sydney some time ago. 2nd card reader on the bowser
slot, plus tapping into the security camera to sholder surf the
pins...
--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. |
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Sander Vesik
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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In comp.arch Bill Davidsen <davidsen@deathstar.prodigy.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Yes it's POSIX, I'm less sure it's UNIX, in terms of coming from an AT&T
base. I can't remember if their version ran ASCII or not, there was a
port which did ASCII, but that was LONG ago for me, and may be wistful
thinking.
|
Its fairly certainly at the very least unix95. the unix mark doesn't
really have all that much to do with coming from at&t base these days.
--
Sander
+++ Out of cheese error +++ |
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George Macdonald
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: AMD to leave x86 behind? |
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|
On 16 Dec 2005 15:09:21 +0100, David Brown
<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:
| Quote: | George Macdonald wrote:
On 15 Dec 2005 12:55:02 -0800, dgay@barnowl.research.intel-research.net
wrote:
This thread seems to
have had a large dose of "This is the way things are done in the US, so
it must be the right way".
Funny, I see it the other way and the despite and self-esteem are fairly
well balanced: derisive remarks about "grubby bits of paper" are a little
excessive IMO; in fact from my POV, most of the Euro-centric view is based
on ignorance of U.S. habits, infrastructure and even regulations on
interstate banking, which have certainly impeded progress here, sometimes
for good reason... sometimes not. I suppose it's early in their little
federal experiment so it could be that things will deteriorate there too.
My guess is that will coincide fairly closely with the EC's decision to
offer itself the direct taxation "present".:-)
Bottom line: in the U.S. we still have cheques because there are enough
people who want/demand them, simply because to them -- I include myself
here and have insisted that my bank change the offered direct debit card
back to an ATM card -- the direct debit system is obviously seriously
flawed in its risks to the customer.
I'm seeing a pattern here - as a broad generalisation, people in the US
want to keep their cheques because they don't trust their banks, they
don't trust their shopkeepers, they don't trust their customers, and
they believe (rightly or wrongly - I'm not fully convinced either way)
that cheques give them more protection against fraud, better security,
or an easier way to deal with problems when they occur.
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That's a selective, sweeping generalisation which you can only get to by
ignoring everything else that's been said. Obviously we don't mistrust all
stores etc.; we simply know that there are some who are crooked or have
crooked employees. As for for "plastic" payment, the evidence is clear -
there is a higher incidence of foul-ups, whether fraudulent or not -
everybody's experienced it and Americans have more experience with
"plastic" than any other country.
| Quote: | Europeans want
electronic transfers, direct debits, chip-and-pin, and other such
solutions because they are much faster and easier (and, again depending
on opinion, more secure), which they are happy to use because they *do*
trust the banks, shops, and customers. So maybe both systems are best
for the people who use them.
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Your "plastic" is certainly *not* more secure - that's my experience and
everyone I know has had glitches with a credit card transaction at one
time. With that background, why would I want a risky transaction dipping
directly into my bank account? Sure you can contest it and maybe get
things put right but until you do, you're short by the amount in dispute.
Getting money back is a lot harder to do than contesting the transaction
before you settle.
With that in mind I have to ask why credit cards never took off in Europe
as well as in the U.S.? I know that some countries had govt. regulations
on personal debt at one time or another but is that not a thing of the past
now?... or was it because merchants did not want to pay the banks their
%age? Is it possibly more difficult to get a credit card in Europe? At
any rate those are the options I prefer for payments: cheque or credit card
- works for me. In fact, to me the direct debit card is an attempt by the
banks to shift the "plastic" risk from them to me - simple as that.
--
Rgds, George Macdonald |
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