| Author |
Message |
Skybuck Flying
Guest
|
 Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cpu,gp |
|
|
Hello fellow netcitizens I have some hardware bandwidth questions for you:
Q1: Some websites specifications say:
1. The Athlon X2 4800 processor is limited to 6.4 Gigabyte/sec of memory
bandwidth.
2. Intel Pentium Extreme Edition processor is limited to 6.4 Gigabyte/sec of
memory bandwidth.
Case 1. Does this mean 3.2 Gigabyte/sec in both directions ?
Case 2. Or is it possible to have 6.4 Gigabyte/sec going in one direction ?
Q2: Some website specifications say (more or less):
PCI-E 16x slot is 8 Gigabyte/sec, 4 Gigabyte/sec IN and 4 Gigabyte/Sec out
PCI-E 8x slot is 4 Gigabyte/sec, 2 Gigabyte/sec IN and 2 Gigabyte/Sec out
PCI-E 4x slot is 2 Gigabyte/sec, 1 Gigabyte/sec IN and 1 Gigabyte/Sec out
PCI-E 2x slot is 1 Gigabyte/sec, 512 Megabyte/sec IN and 512 Megabyte/Sec
out
PCI-E 1x slot is 512 Megabyte/sec, 256 Megabyte/sec IN and 256 Megabyte/Sec
out
Case 3. So does this mean that PCI-E 16x slot is limited to 4 Gigabyte/sec
in one direction ?
Case 4. Or is it possible to go 8 Gigabyte/sec in one direction ?
I'll assume Case 2 and Case 3 to be true.
Furthermore it seems current SLI motherboards when in SLI mode,
turn the two PCI-E 16x slots into PCI-E 8x slots.
So the bandwidth that is available in SLI mode is the same as in SINGLE
mode.
Anyway in both cases this would mean a maximum input for the graphics cards
of:
Single: 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
SLI: 2 Gigabyte/sec + 2 Gigabyte/sec = 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
So that would leave 2.4 Gigabyte/sec for output.
(from graphics card back to RAM)
Single: 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output
SLI: 1.2 Gigabyte/sec + 1.2 Gigabyte/sec = 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output.
So if I were to buy such an SLI motherboard it would be pointless to buy a
graphics card which can handle more than 2 gigabyte/sec of input and more
than 1.2 gigabyte/sec of output.
Q3: How much bandwidth can the new Nvidia GTX 7800 process for input and
generate for output ?
Q4: How much bandwidth can the processors handle ?
Alternatively I could wait for new motherboards to come out with FULL
BANDWIDTH PCI-E 16x slots.
Then the picture would look like this:
Single: 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
SLI: 4 Gigabyte/sec + 4 Gigabyte/sec = 8 Gigabyte/sec Input.
BUT this is now limited by the the processor/memory controller: 6.4
Gigabyte/sec
SLI: 3.2 Gigabyte/sec + 3.2 Gigabyte/sec = 6.4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
That would leave no room for output... that s bad.
So better could be:
SLI: 2 Gigabyte/sec + 2 Gigabyte/sec = 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
SLI: 1.2 Gigabyte/sec + 1.2 Gigabyte/sec = 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output/
So I think I must come to the conclusion that with this processor/memory
controller/bandwidth limitation waiting/buying this new motherboard will
solve absolutely nothing. Since the bottleneck is in the processor/memory
controller. (I think sometimes this is called the northbridge chip ? )
Anyway these dual core processors are very expensive.. so just upgrading
them in the future for a little bit more bandwidth seems crazy.
My conclusion is as follows:
1. If the single card (the gtx 7800) is able to handle 6.4 Gigabyte/sec of
input + output then I don't need SLI ;)
2. Otherwise I could buy into SLI as soon as the price has dropped to a
certain point for the secondary graphics card.
The performance increase for SLI is:
( ( Final Performance - Original Performance ) / Original Performance ) *
100%
( ( 6.4 - 4.0 ) / 4.0 ) * 100% = 60%
Let's see the current price is $500 dollars.
So the price of the future card should only be 60% of the price which it is
now.
$5 * 60% = $300 dollars
Alternative way of calculating:
The current performance is 100% procent.
The future performance will be 160% procent.
So the future total price should not exceed 160 * $5 dollars = $800 total
dollars
We might already have payed $500 dollars so an investment of $300 dollars is
warrented to get the same percentagual increase in performance
hehehehehehhihihihi.
Ofcourse by then much better cards might have come out with even superior
performance... though our current motherboards won't be able to benefit from
them, simply because the bottleneck of 4 Gigabyte/sec
in and 4 Gigabyte/sec out... but that would exceed the main memory/ram of
6.4 Gigabyte... so finally we more or less limited to 3.2 Gigabyte/sec for
current motherboards/processors/chipsets ;)
Bye,
Skybuck. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Skybuck Flying
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
Once again I am happy to disappoint you:
It's rare, here is fucking bandwidth test, instead of other real world not
so real fake bullshit tests:
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=455&p=3
Jiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiippppppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeeekwaaaaaaaajeeeeeeeeee
motherfucker
Look at that bandwidth fly by !!!!
wwwwwwwoooooooooooeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhoooooooeeeeeeewwwwwwwiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Well into the multiple gigabytes/sec ! ;) =D
Bye,
Skybuck.
"Phil Weldon" <notdiscosed@example.com> wrote in message
news:KLu9f.3872$AS6.426@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | 'Skybuck Flying crossposted some questions to way to many newsgroups:
| Hello fellow netcitizens I have some hardware bandwidth questions for
you:
.
.
_____
A memory bus is bidirectional; data can move in two directions, but NOT AT
THE SAME TIME.
Memory bandwidths are given in PEAK capacity. No current memory modules
can
come even close to delivering data as fast as current CPUs can use the
data.
No peripherials currently available (including display adapters) can use
anything near the PEAK capacity of ANY of the newer buses for which they
are
designed. Even ATA133 can't be maxed out.
Do a lot more reading and reconsider the rest of your questions.
Phil Weldon
"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dk5qi0$sc2$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
| Hello fellow netcitizens I have some hardware bandwidth questions for
you:
|
| Q1: Some websites specifications say:
|
| 1. The Athlon X2 4800 processor is limited to 6.4 Gigabyte/sec of memory
| bandwidth.
| 2. Intel Pentium Extreme Edition processor is limited to 6.4
Gigabyte/sec
of
| memory bandwidth.
|
| Case 1. Does this mean 3.2 Gigabyte/sec in both directions ?
|
| Case 2. Or is it possible to have 6.4 Gigabyte/sec going in one
direction
?
|
| Q2: Some website specifications say (more or less):
|
| PCI-E 16x slot is 8 Gigabyte/sec, 4 Gigabyte/sec IN and 4 Gigabyte/Sec
out
| PCI-E 8x slot is 4 Gigabyte/sec, 2 Gigabyte/sec IN and 2 Gigabyte/Sec
out
| PCI-E 4x slot is 2 Gigabyte/sec, 1 Gigabyte/sec IN and 1 Gigabyte/Sec
out
| PCI-E 2x slot is 1 Gigabyte/sec, 512 Megabyte/sec IN and 512
Megabyte/Sec
| out
| PCI-E 1x slot is 512 Megabyte/sec, 256 Megabyte/sec IN and 256
Megabyte/Sec
| out
|
| Case 3. So does this mean that PCI-E 16x slot is limited to 4
Gigabyte/sec
| in one direction ?
|
| Case 4. Or is it possible to go 8 Gigabyte/sec in one direction ?
|
| I'll assume Case 2 and Case 3 to be true.
|
| Furthermore it seems current SLI motherboards when in SLI mode,
| turn the two PCI-E 16x slots into PCI-E 8x slots.
|
| So the bandwidth that is available in SLI mode is the same as in SINGLE
| mode.
|
| Anyway in both cases this would mean a maximum input for the graphics
cards
| of:
|
| Single: 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 2 Gigabyte/sec + 2 Gigabyte/sec = 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| So that would leave 2.4 Gigabyte/sec for output.
| (from graphics card back to RAM)
|
| Single: 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output
|
| SLI: 1.2 Gigabyte/sec + 1.2 Gigabyte/sec = 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output.
|
| So if I were to buy such an SLI motherboard it would be pointless to buy
a
| graphics card which can handle more than 2 gigabyte/sec of input and
more
| than 1.2 gigabyte/sec of output.
|
| Q3: How much bandwidth can the new Nvidia GTX 7800 process for input and
| generate for output ?
|
| Q4: How much bandwidth can the processors handle ?
|
| Alternatively I could wait for new motherboards to come out with FULL
| BANDWIDTH PCI-E 16x slots.
|
| Then the picture would look like this:
|
| Single: 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 4 Gigabyte/sec + 4 Gigabyte/sec = 8 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| BUT this is now limited by the the processor/memory controller: 6.4
| Gigabyte/sec
|
| SLI: 3.2 Gigabyte/sec + 3.2 Gigabyte/sec = 6.4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| That would leave no room for output... that s bad.
|
| So better could be:
|
| SLI: 2 Gigabyte/sec + 2 Gigabyte/sec = 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 1.2 Gigabyte/sec + 1.2 Gigabyte/sec = 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output/
|
| So I think I must come to the conclusion that with this processor/memory
| controller/bandwidth limitation waiting/buying this new motherboard will
| solve absolutely nothing. Since the bottleneck is in the
processor/memory
| controller. (I think sometimes this is called the northbridge chip ? )
|
| Anyway these dual core processors are very expensive.. so just upgrading
| them in the future for a little bit more bandwidth seems crazy.
|
| My conclusion is as follows:
|
| 1. If the single card (the gtx 7800) is able to handle 6.4 Gigabyte/sec
of
| input + output then I don't need SLI ;)
|
| 2. Otherwise I could buy into SLI as soon as the price has dropped to a
| certain point for the secondary graphics card.
|
| The performance increase for SLI is:
| ( ( Final Performance - Original Performance ) / Original Performance )
*
| 100%
| ( ( 6.4 - 4.0 ) / 4.0 ) * 100% = 60%
|
| Let's see the current price is $500 dollars.
|
| So the price of the future card should only be 60% of the price which it
is
| now.
|
| $5 * 60% = $300 dollars
|
| Alternative way of calculating:
|
| The current performance is 100% procent.
|
| The future performance will be 160% procent.
|
| So the future total price should not exceed 160 * $5 dollars = $800
total
| dollars
|
| We might already have payed $500 dollars so an investment of $300
dollars
is
| warrented to get the same percentagual increase in performance
| hehehehehehhihihihi.
|
| Ofcourse by then much better cards might have come out with even
superior
| performance... though our current motherboards won't be able to benefit
from
| them, simply because the bottleneck of 4 Gigabyte/sec
| in and 4 Gigabyte/sec out... but that would exceed the main memory/ram
of
| 6.4 Gigabyte... so finally we more or less limited to 3.2 Gigabyte/sec
for
| current motherboards/processors/chipsets ;)
|
| Bye,
| Skybuck.
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skybuck Flying
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
You might be interested in getting a clue to what you're talking about ;)
Bye, Bye,
Mister Trolly ;) :)
"Phil Weldon" <notdiscosed@example.com> wrote in message
news:zOx9f.3916$AS6.2319@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | 'Skybuck Flying' wrote, in part:
|I have already googled extensively for the words bandwidth, cpu, gpu,
ram,
| diagrams, netburst, hyper transport, maximum, graphics etc.
|
| Not once have I encountered a website which states the ammount of
bandwidth
| that a cpu, gpu, ram chip or transport technology can practically
process
or
| generate.
_____
Google + websites do not necessarily = learning.
Websites are not the only place one can read.
While googling and surfing you might also read up on
how to post to a newsgroup
why it is a good idea to read at least some of the posts in newsgroups
before posting
why it is a good idea to trim quotes when posting
why it is a good idea to limit crossposting.
And you might also consider not asking a question if you don't want an
answer. A different attitude might invite more answers to your questions.
Phil Weldon
"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dk68pu$dls$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
|I have already googled extensively for the words bandwidth, cpu, gpu,
ram,
| diagrams, netburst, hyper transport, maximum, graphics etc.
|
| Not once have I encountered a website which states the ammount of
bandwidth
| that a cpu, gpu, ram chip or transport technology can practically
process
or
| generate.
|
| The only things I have encountered are:
|
| 1. Occording to you apperently theoretical maximum bandwidths.
|
| 2. PC/System benchmarks, which ofcourse depend on many factors and
| combinations and are therefore bogus.
|
| You claim to have knowledge of practical limitations of these devices.
|
| I claim that you are full of bullshit since this information is not
| available on the internet, so there is after all nothing to read.
|
| Ofcourse you are free to prove me wrong =D
|
| Bye,
| Skybuck.
|
||
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skybuck Flying
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
Here is a nice start:
Technical specifications of GeForce 7800:
http://www.nvidia.com/page/specs_gf7800.html
Graphics Bus Technology: PCI Express
Memory Interface: 256-bit
Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec.): 38.4
Fill Rate (billion pixels/sec.): 10.32
Vertices/sec. (million): 860
Pixels per clock (peak): 24
RAMDACs (MHz): 400
In particular notice this line:
Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec.): 38.4
Is this a theoretical or practically limitation ?
I would guess a practical since the rest looks pretty practical too.
However this information could be misleading.
What is ment with memory bandwidth in this case ?
Case 1: Main/PC/System RAM <=> System Bus <=> Graphics Card
or
Case 2: Onboard graphics card memory/ram communication.
My guess would be 2 !!!!! ( Because PCI express can't even handle that much
bandwidth at the present time)
Which is still pretty fucking amazing ;)
Here we are with an Athlon X2 4800 dual core which is able to "only" manage
to pump around 6.4 GB/sec...
Gjee... ;)
Maybe I am wrong and maybe it's case 2 =D <- that would be cool =D
Bye,
Skybuck.
"Phil Weldon" <notdiscosed@example.com> wrote in message
news:KLu9f.3872$AS6.426@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | 'Skybuck Flying crossposted some questions to way to many newsgroups:
| Hello fellow netcitizens I have some hardware bandwidth questions for
you:
.
.
_____
A memory bus is bidirectional; data can move in two directions, but NOT AT
THE SAME TIME.
Memory bandwidths are given in PEAK capacity. No current memory modules
can
come even close to delivering data as fast as current CPUs can use the
data.
No peripherials currently available (including display adapters) can use
anything near the PEAK capacity of ANY of the newer buses for which they
are
designed. Even ATA133 can't be maxed out.
Do a lot more reading and reconsider the rest of your questions.
Phil Weldon
"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dk5qi0$sc2$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
| Hello fellow netcitizens I have some hardware bandwidth questions for
you:
|
| Q1: Some websites specifications say:
|
| 1. The Athlon X2 4800 processor is limited to 6.4 Gigabyte/sec of memory
| bandwidth.
| 2. Intel Pentium Extreme Edition processor is limited to 6.4
Gigabyte/sec
of
| memory bandwidth.
|
| Case 1. Does this mean 3.2 Gigabyte/sec in both directions ?
|
| Case 2. Or is it possible to have 6.4 Gigabyte/sec going in one
direction
?
|
| Q2: Some website specifications say (more or less):
|
| PCI-E 16x slot is 8 Gigabyte/sec, 4 Gigabyte/sec IN and 4 Gigabyte/Sec
out
| PCI-E 8x slot is 4 Gigabyte/sec, 2 Gigabyte/sec IN and 2 Gigabyte/Sec
out
| PCI-E 4x slot is 2 Gigabyte/sec, 1 Gigabyte/sec IN and 1 Gigabyte/Sec
out
| PCI-E 2x slot is 1 Gigabyte/sec, 512 Megabyte/sec IN and 512
Megabyte/Sec
| out
| PCI-E 1x slot is 512 Megabyte/sec, 256 Megabyte/sec IN and 256
Megabyte/Sec
| out
|
| Case 3. So does this mean that PCI-E 16x slot is limited to 4
Gigabyte/sec
| in one direction ?
|
| Case 4. Or is it possible to go 8 Gigabyte/sec in one direction ?
|
| I'll assume Case 2 and Case 3 to be true.
|
| Furthermore it seems current SLI motherboards when in SLI mode,
| turn the two PCI-E 16x slots into PCI-E 8x slots.
|
| So the bandwidth that is available in SLI mode is the same as in SINGLE
| mode.
|
| Anyway in both cases this would mean a maximum input for the graphics
cards
| of:
|
| Single: 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 2 Gigabyte/sec + 2 Gigabyte/sec = 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| So that would leave 2.4 Gigabyte/sec for output.
| (from graphics card back to RAM)
|
| Single: 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output
|
| SLI: 1.2 Gigabyte/sec + 1.2 Gigabyte/sec = 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output.
|
| So if I were to buy such an SLI motherboard it would be pointless to buy
a
| graphics card which can handle more than 2 gigabyte/sec of input and
more
| than 1.2 gigabyte/sec of output.
|
| Q3: How much bandwidth can the new Nvidia GTX 7800 process for input and
| generate for output ?
|
| Q4: How much bandwidth can the processors handle ?
|
| Alternatively I could wait for new motherboards to come out with FULL
| BANDWIDTH PCI-E 16x slots.
|
| Then the picture would look like this:
|
| Single: 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 4 Gigabyte/sec + 4 Gigabyte/sec = 8 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| BUT this is now limited by the the processor/memory controller: 6.4
| Gigabyte/sec
|
| SLI: 3.2 Gigabyte/sec + 3.2 Gigabyte/sec = 6.4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| That would leave no room for output... that s bad.
|
| So better could be:
|
| SLI: 2 Gigabyte/sec + 2 Gigabyte/sec = 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 1.2 Gigabyte/sec + 1.2 Gigabyte/sec = 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output/
|
| So I think I must come to the conclusion that with this processor/memory
| controller/bandwidth limitation waiting/buying this new motherboard will
| solve absolutely nothing. Since the bottleneck is in the
processor/memory
| controller. (I think sometimes this is called the northbridge chip ? )
|
| Anyway these dual core processors are very expensive.. so just upgrading
| them in the future for a little bit more bandwidth seems crazy.
|
| My conclusion is as follows:
|
| 1. If the single card (the gtx 7800) is able to handle 6.4 Gigabyte/sec
of
| input + output then I don't need SLI ;)
|
| 2. Otherwise I could buy into SLI as soon as the price has dropped to a
| certain point for the secondary graphics card.
|
| The performance increase for SLI is:
| ( ( Final Performance - Original Performance ) / Original Performance )
*
| 100%
| ( ( 6.4 - 4.0 ) / 4.0 ) * 100% = 60%
|
| Let's see the current price is $500 dollars.
|
| So the price of the future card should only be 60% of the price which it
is
| now.
|
| $5 * 60% = $300 dollars
|
| Alternative way of calculating:
|
| The current performance is 100% procent.
|
| The future performance will be 160% procent.
|
| So the future total price should not exceed 160 * $5 dollars = $800
total
| dollars
|
| We might already have payed $500 dollars so an investment of $300
dollars
is
| warrented to get the same percentagual increase in performance
| hehehehehehhihihihi.
|
| Ofcourse by then much better cards might have come out with even
superior
| performance... though our current motherboards won't be able to benefit
from
| them, simply because the bottleneck of 4 Gigabyte/sec
| in and 4 Gigabyte/sec out... but that would exceed the main memory/ram
of
| 6.4 Gigabyte... so finally we more or less limited to 3.2 Gigabyte/sec
for
| current motherboards/processors/chipsets ;)
|
| Bye,
| Skybuck.
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil Weldon
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
'Skybuck Flying' wrote, in part:
|I have already googled extensively for the words bandwidth, cpu, gpu, ram,
| diagrams, netburst, hyper transport, maximum, graphics etc.
|
| Not once have I encountered a website which states the ammount of
bandwidth
| that a cpu, gpu, ram chip or transport technology can practically process
or
| generate.
_____
Google + websites do not necessarily = learning.
Websites are not the only place one can read.
While googling and surfing you might also read up on
how to post to a newsgroup
why it is a good idea to read at least some of the posts in newsgroups
before posting
why it is a good idea to trim quotes when posting
why it is a good idea to limit crossposting.
And you might also consider not asking a question if you don't want an
answer. A different attitude might invite more answers to your questions.
Phil Weldon
"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dk68pu$dls$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
|I have already googled extensively for the words bandwidth, cpu, gpu, ram,
| diagrams, netburst, hyper transport, maximum, graphics etc.
|
| Not once have I encountered a website which states the ammount of
bandwidth
| that a cpu, gpu, ram chip or transport technology can practically process
or
| generate.
|
| The only things I have encountered are:
|
| 1. Occording to you apperently theoretical maximum bandwidths.
|
| 2. PC/System benchmarks, which ofcourse depend on many factors and
| combinations and are therefore bogus.
|
| You claim to have knowledge of practical limitations of these devices.
|
| I claim that you are full of bullshit since this information is not
| available on the internet, so there is after all nothing to read.
|
| Ofcourse you are free to prove me wrong =D
|
| Bye,
| Skybuck.
|
|| >
| >
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skybuck Flying
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
I have already googled extensively for the words bandwidth, cpu, gpu, ram,
diagrams, netburst, hyper transport, maximum, graphics etc.
Not once have I encountered a website which states the ammount of bandwidth
that a cpu, gpu, ram chip or transport technology can practically process or
generate.
The only things I have encountered are:
1. Occording to you apperently theoretical maximum bandwidths.
2. PC/System benchmarks, which ofcourse depend on many factors and
combinations and are therefore bogus.
You claim to have knowledge of practical limitations of these devices.
I claim that you are full of bullshit since this information is not
available on the internet, so there is after all nothing to read.
Ofcourse you are free to prove me wrong =D
Bye,
Skybuck.
"Phil Weldon" <notdiscosed@example.com> wrote in message
news:KLu9f.3872$AS6.426@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | 'Skybuck Flying crossposted some questions to way to many newsgroups:
| Hello fellow netcitizens I have some hardware bandwidth questions for
you:
.
.
_____
A memory bus is bidirectional; data can move in two directions, but NOT AT
THE SAME TIME.
Memory bandwidths are given in PEAK capacity. No current memory modules
can
come even close to delivering data as fast as current CPUs can use the
data.
No peripherials currently available (including display adapters) can use
anything near the PEAK capacity of ANY of the newer buses for which they
are
designed. Even ATA133 can't be maxed out.
Do a lot more reading and reconsider the rest of your questions.
Phil Weldon
"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dk5qi0$sc2$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
| Hello fellow netcitizens I have some hardware bandwidth questions for
you:
|
| Q1: Some websites specifications say:
|
| 1. The Athlon X2 4800 processor is limited to 6.4 Gigabyte/sec of memory
| bandwidth.
| 2. Intel Pentium Extreme Edition processor is limited to 6.4
Gigabyte/sec
of
| memory bandwidth.
|
| Case 1. Does this mean 3.2 Gigabyte/sec in both directions ?
|
| Case 2. Or is it possible to have 6.4 Gigabyte/sec going in one
direction
?
|
| Q2: Some website specifications say (more or less):
|
| PCI-E 16x slot is 8 Gigabyte/sec, 4 Gigabyte/sec IN and 4 Gigabyte/Sec
out
| PCI-E 8x slot is 4 Gigabyte/sec, 2 Gigabyte/sec IN and 2 Gigabyte/Sec
out
| PCI-E 4x slot is 2 Gigabyte/sec, 1 Gigabyte/sec IN and 1 Gigabyte/Sec
out
| PCI-E 2x slot is 1 Gigabyte/sec, 512 Megabyte/sec IN and 512
Megabyte/Sec
| out
| PCI-E 1x slot is 512 Megabyte/sec, 256 Megabyte/sec IN and 256
Megabyte/Sec
| out
|
| Case 3. So does this mean that PCI-E 16x slot is limited to 4
Gigabyte/sec
| in one direction ?
|
| Case 4. Or is it possible to go 8 Gigabyte/sec in one direction ?
|
| I'll assume Case 2 and Case 3 to be true.
|
| Furthermore it seems current SLI motherboards when in SLI mode,
| turn the two PCI-E 16x slots into PCI-E 8x slots.
|
| So the bandwidth that is available in SLI mode is the same as in SINGLE
| mode.
|
| Anyway in both cases this would mean a maximum input for the graphics
cards
| of:
|
| Single: 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 2 Gigabyte/sec + 2 Gigabyte/sec = 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| So that would leave 2.4 Gigabyte/sec for output.
| (from graphics card back to RAM)
|
| Single: 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output
|
| SLI: 1.2 Gigabyte/sec + 1.2 Gigabyte/sec = 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output.
|
| So if I were to buy such an SLI motherboard it would be pointless to buy
a
| graphics card which can handle more than 2 gigabyte/sec of input and
more
| than 1.2 gigabyte/sec of output.
|
| Q3: How much bandwidth can the new Nvidia GTX 7800 process for input and
| generate for output ?
|
| Q4: How much bandwidth can the processors handle ?
|
| Alternatively I could wait for new motherboards to come out with FULL
| BANDWIDTH PCI-E 16x slots.
|
| Then the picture would look like this:
|
| Single: 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 4 Gigabyte/sec + 4 Gigabyte/sec = 8 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| BUT this is now limited by the the processor/memory controller: 6.4
| Gigabyte/sec
|
| SLI: 3.2 Gigabyte/sec + 3.2 Gigabyte/sec = 6.4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| That would leave no room for output... that s bad.
|
| So better could be:
|
| SLI: 2 Gigabyte/sec + 2 Gigabyte/sec = 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 1.2 Gigabyte/sec + 1.2 Gigabyte/sec = 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output/
|
| So I think I must come to the conclusion that with this processor/memory
| controller/bandwidth limitation waiting/buying this new motherboard will
| solve absolutely nothing. Since the bottleneck is in the
processor/memory
| controller. (I think sometimes this is called the northbridge chip ? )
|
| Anyway these dual core processors are very expensive.. so just upgrading
| them in the future for a little bit more bandwidth seems crazy.
|
| My conclusion is as follows:
|
| 1. If the single card (the gtx 7800) is able to handle 6.4 Gigabyte/sec
of
| input + output then I don't need SLI ;)
|
| 2. Otherwise I could buy into SLI as soon as the price has dropped to a
| certain point for the secondary graphics card.
|
| The performance increase for SLI is:
| ( ( Final Performance - Original Performance ) / Original Performance )
*
| 100%
| ( ( 6.4 - 4.0 ) / 4.0 ) * 100% = 60%
|
| Let's see the current price is $500 dollars.
|
| So the price of the future card should only be 60% of the price which it
is
| now.
|
| $5 * 60% = $300 dollars
|
| Alternative way of calculating:
|
| The current performance is 100% procent.
|
| The future performance will be 160% procent.
|
| So the future total price should not exceed 160 * $5 dollars = $800
total
| dollars
|
| We might already have payed $500 dollars so an investment of $300
dollars
is
| warrented to get the same percentagual increase in performance
| hehehehehehhihihihi.
|
| Ofcourse by then much better cards might have come out with even
superior
| performance... though our current motherboards won't be able to benefit
from
| them, simply because the bottleneck of 4 Gigabyte/sec
| in and 4 Gigabyte/sec out... but that would exceed the main memory/ram
of
| 6.4 Gigabyte... so finally we more or less limited to 3.2 Gigabyte/sec
for
| current motherboards/processors/chipsets ;)
|
| Bye,
| Skybuck.
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil Weldon
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
'Skybuck Flying crossposted some questions to way to many newsgroups:
| Hello fellow netcitizens I have some hardware bandwidth questions for you:
..
..
_____
A memory bus is bidirectional; data can move in two directions, but NOT AT
THE SAME TIME.
Memory bandwidths are given in PEAK capacity. No current memory modules can
come even close to delivering data as fast as current CPUs can use the data.
No peripherials currently available (including display adapters) can use
anything near the PEAK capacity of ANY of the newer buses for which they are
designed. Even ATA133 can't be maxed out.
Do a lot more reading and reconsider the rest of your questions.
Phil Weldon
"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dk5qi0$sc2$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
| Hello fellow netcitizens I have some hardware bandwidth questions for you:
|
| Q1: Some websites specifications say:
|
| 1. The Athlon X2 4800 processor is limited to 6.4 Gigabyte/sec of memory
| bandwidth.
| 2. Intel Pentium Extreme Edition processor is limited to 6.4 Gigabyte/sec
of
| memory bandwidth.
|
| Case 1. Does this mean 3.2 Gigabyte/sec in both directions ?
|
| Case 2. Or is it possible to have 6.4 Gigabyte/sec going in one direction
?
|
| Q2: Some website specifications say (more or less):
|
| PCI-E 16x slot is 8 Gigabyte/sec, 4 Gigabyte/sec IN and 4 Gigabyte/Sec out
| PCI-E 8x slot is 4 Gigabyte/sec, 2 Gigabyte/sec IN and 2 Gigabyte/Sec out
| PCI-E 4x slot is 2 Gigabyte/sec, 1 Gigabyte/sec IN and 1 Gigabyte/Sec out
| PCI-E 2x slot is 1 Gigabyte/sec, 512 Megabyte/sec IN and 512 Megabyte/Sec
| out
| PCI-E 1x slot is 512 Megabyte/sec, 256 Megabyte/sec IN and 256
Megabyte/Sec
| out
|
| Case 3. So does this mean that PCI-E 16x slot is limited to 4 Gigabyte/sec
| in one direction ?
|
| Case 4. Or is it possible to go 8 Gigabyte/sec in one direction ?
|
| I'll assume Case 2 and Case 3 to be true.
|
| Furthermore it seems current SLI motherboards when in SLI mode,
| turn the two PCI-E 16x slots into PCI-E 8x slots.
|
| So the bandwidth that is available in SLI mode is the same as in SINGLE
| mode.
|
| Anyway in both cases this would mean a maximum input for the graphics
cards
| of:
|
| Single: 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 2 Gigabyte/sec + 2 Gigabyte/sec = 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| So that would leave 2.4 Gigabyte/sec for output.
| (from graphics card back to RAM)
|
| Single: 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output
|
| SLI: 1.2 Gigabyte/sec + 1.2 Gigabyte/sec = 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output.
|
| So if I were to buy such an SLI motherboard it would be pointless to buy a
| graphics card which can handle more than 2 gigabyte/sec of input and more
| than 1.2 gigabyte/sec of output.
|
| Q3: How much bandwidth can the new Nvidia GTX 7800 process for input and
| generate for output ?
|
| Q4: How much bandwidth can the processors handle ?
|
| Alternatively I could wait for new motherboards to come out with FULL
| BANDWIDTH PCI-E 16x slots.
|
| Then the picture would look like this:
|
| Single: 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 4 Gigabyte/sec + 4 Gigabyte/sec = 8 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| BUT this is now limited by the the processor/memory controller: 6.4
| Gigabyte/sec
|
| SLI: 3.2 Gigabyte/sec + 3.2 Gigabyte/sec = 6.4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| That would leave no room for output... that s bad.
|
| So better could be:
|
| SLI: 2 Gigabyte/sec + 2 Gigabyte/sec = 4 Gigabyte/sec Input.
|
| SLI: 1.2 Gigabyte/sec + 1.2 Gigabyte/sec = 2.4 Gigabyte/sec Output/
|
| So I think I must come to the conclusion that with this processor/memory
| controller/bandwidth limitation waiting/buying this new motherboard will
| solve absolutely nothing. Since the bottleneck is in the processor/memory
| controller. (I think sometimes this is called the northbridge chip ? )
|
| Anyway these dual core processors are very expensive.. so just upgrading
| them in the future for a little bit more bandwidth seems crazy.
|
| My conclusion is as follows:
|
| 1. If the single card (the gtx 7800) is able to handle 6.4 Gigabyte/sec of
| input + output then I don't need SLI ;)
|
| 2. Otherwise I could buy into SLI as soon as the price has dropped to a
| certain point for the secondary graphics card.
|
| The performance increase for SLI is:
| ( ( Final Performance - Original Performance ) / Original Performance ) *
| 100%
| ( ( 6.4 - 4.0 ) / 4.0 ) * 100% = 60%
|
| Let's see the current price is $500 dollars.
|
| So the price of the future card should only be 60% of the price which it
is
| now.
|
| $5 * 60% = $300 dollars
|
| Alternative way of calculating:
|
| The current performance is 100% procent.
|
| The future performance will be 160% procent.
|
| So the future total price should not exceed 160 * $5 dollars = $800 total
| dollars
|
| We might already have payed $500 dollars so an investment of $300 dollars
is
| warrented to get the same percentagual increase in performance
| hehehehehehhihihihi.
|
| Ofcourse by then much better cards might have come out with even superior
| performance... though our current motherboards won't be able to benefit
from
| them, simply because the bottleneck of 4 Gigabyte/sec
| in and 4 Gigabyte/sec out... but that would exceed the main memory/ram of
| 6.4 Gigabyte... so finally we more or less limited to 3.2 Gigabyte/sec for
| current motherboards/processors/chipsets ;)
|
| Bye,
| Skybuck.
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mac
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:02:50 +0000, Phil Weldon wrote:
| Quote: | 'Skybuck Flying crossposted some questions to way to many newsgroups:
| Hello fellow netcitizens I have some hardware bandwidth questions for you:
.
.
_____
A memory bus is bidirectional; data can move in two directions, but NOT AT
THE SAME TIME.
|
[snip]
Just to clarify, in the Intel architecture, the processor is not connected
to the memory. The processor bandwidth given would probably be the host
bus bandwidth. This is the bus connecting the processor to the so-called
north bridge, which is where the memory controller and PCI bus are.
--Mac |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Hopkins
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
| Quote: | You might be interested in getting a clue to what you're talking
about ;)
|
You would do well to go away, reconsider your attitude, taking on the fair
advice that Phil has given you, and then try again, preferably after
apologising for coming across as an ignorant arsehole. Does the saying "Do
not bite the hand that feeds" mean anything to you?
--
Richard Hopkins
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
(replace nospam with pipex in reply address)
The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skybuck Flying
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:06 am Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
"Richard Hopkins" <richh@dsl.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:M92dnRJ6zaoV6_reRVnyvA@pipex.net...
| Quote: | "Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
You might be interested in getting a clue to what you're talking
about ;)
You would do well to go away, reconsider your attitude, taking on the fair
advice that Phil has given you, and then try again, preferably after
apologising for coming across as an ignorant arsehole. Does the saying "Do
not bite the hand that feeds" mean anything to you?
|
I was gonna say: "Go suck his dick"
But it's clear you already doing that lol.
Bye,
Skybuck. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:07 am Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:06:29 +0100, "Skybuck Flying"
<nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Richard Hopkins" <richh@dsl.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:M92dnRJ6zaoV6_reRVnyvA@pipex.net...
"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
You might be interested in getting a clue to what you're talking
about ;)
You would do well to go away, reconsider your attitude, taking on the fair
advice that Phil has given you, and then try again, preferably after
apologising for coming across as an ignorant arsehole. Does the saying "Do
not bite the hand that feeds" mean anything to you?
I was gonna say: "Go suck his dick"
But it's clear you already doing that lol.
|
---
Why are you here?
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ed Forsythe
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject:
Re: 4 Hardware bandwidth questions. (Related to ram,pci-e,cp |
|
|
I agree Phil but it's obvious that this cretin is a troll so why feed him?
--
Tally Ho!
Ed
"Phil Weldon" <notdiscosed@example.com> wrote in message
news:zOx9f.3916$AS6.2319@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | 'Skybuck Flying' wrote, in part:
|I have already googled extensively for the words bandwidth, cpu, gpu,
ram,
| diagrams, netburst, hyper transport, maximum, graphics etc.
|
| Not once have I encountered a website which states the ammount of
bandwidth
| that a cpu, gpu, ram chip or transport technology can practically
process
or
| generate.
_____
Google + websites do not necessarily = learning.
Websites are not the only place one can read.
While googling and surfing you might also read up on
how to post to a newsgroup
why it is a good idea to read at least some of the posts in newsgroups
before posting
why it is a good idea to trim quotes when posting
why it is a good idea to limit crossposting.
And you might also consider not asking a question if you don't want an
answer. A different attitude might invite more answers to your questions.
Phil Weldon
"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dk68pu$dls$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
|I have already googled extensively for the words bandwidth, cpu, gpu,
ram,
| diagrams, netburst, hyper transport, maximum, graphics etc.
|
| Not once have I encountered a website which states the ammount of
bandwidth
| that a cpu, gpu, ram chip or transport technology can practically
process
or
| generate.
|
| The only things I have encountered are:
|
| 1. Occording to you apperently theoretical maximum bandwidths.
|
| 2. PC/System benchmarks, which ofcourse depend on many factors and
| combinations and are therefore bogus.
|
| You claim to have knowledge of practical limitations of these devices.
|
| I claim that you are full of bullshit since this information is not
| available on the internet, so there is after all nothing to read.
|
| Ofcourse you are free to prove me wrong =D
|
| Bye,
| Skybuck.
|
||
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
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