| Author |
Message |
Michael Noone
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:53 pm Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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"Richard F. Man" <richard@imagecraft.com> wrote in
news:41BAB7C8.8020209@imagecraft.com:
| Quote: | Michael Noone wrote:
"Richard F. Man" <richard@imagecraft.com> wrote in
Currently there is no low cost flash downloader for the Philips. We
will be offering one for around $175-$200 in Jan 2005. Our compiler
will also be available then, for $199.
None at all? Sounds like I shall just be avoiding that series of chips
for now then!
-Michael
I am sorry. I may be giving the wrong impressions. Let me rewrite
that. Most ARM flash MCUs have a bootloader builtin, so the eaiest way
to get start is to use that and the cost is usually free. It uses a
serial port and may not have fancy stuff, but it does work.
As a tool vendor, my goal is a bit different: I want to support a
single interface if possible, , plus I want the same interface to
support debugging, so that leaves the JTAG dongle. Currently, I am not
aware of any low cost JTAG HW/SW combo that supports the LPC2K series
and we will be filling the gap.
I must admit I didn't really know what a bootloader is, so I just read |
up on them. From what I can tell a bootloader would be a very good
option, but is it enabled by default on most ARM chips? I was looking at
bootloaders for AVRs, and it seemed you had to enable the bootloader via
some fuse bits, which as far as I know can only be done via a
programmer. Is it the same on ARMs, or is this not a problem? Thanks,
-Michael |
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Paul Marcel
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:40 pm Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:10:25 GMT, Michael Noone
<mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1> wrote:
| Quote: | ssembler, or C, or
|
I had the same question recently. I ended up using the free
codesourcery compiler. I have the eb40a board and a Nohau JTAG device
to control it. It comes with a software interface called seehau. This
is not the cheapest JTAG device, however. The eb40a board is pretty
inexpensive. I got mine from digikey.
I'm very impressed with the free codesourcery gnu compiler so far.
I have some simple example source code at www.toadhaul.org/arm.php
I will soon put up another example with interrupt-driven serial i/o
and a second timer interrupt.
Paul |
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R Adsett
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:54 pm Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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In article <Xns95BC6EBFFD488mnooneuiucedu127001@63.240.76.16>,
mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1 says...
| Quote: | I must admit I didn't really know what a bootloader is, so I just read
up on them. From what I can tell a bootloader would be a very good
option, but is it enabled by default on most ARM chips? I was looking at
bootloaders for AVRs, and it seemed you had to enable the bootloader via
some fuse bits, which as far as I know can only be done via a
programmer. Is it the same on ARMs, or is this not a problem? Thanks,
The Philips and Analog Devices processors have built-in bootloaders that |
are invoke by having a specific pin held low at reset (as do some other
non-ARM micros such as the ST10/C167). There is a standard ISP header
developed for those processors
(see http://www.open-research.org.uk/ARMuC/index.cgi?Standard_ISP_Header
)
There are free untilities for both those families to provide serial
download support.
The ST STR7 series originally advertised that they would support a
similar serial download but they appear to have dropped the idea.
From ARM micro to ARM micro only the instruction set remains the same
(mostly). The peripherals, the flash interface and even the details of
the interrupt support vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Having the same instruction architecture does reduce the height of the
learning curve though.
Robert |
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Leon Heller
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:08 am Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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"Michael Noone" <mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Xns95BC6EBFFD488mnooneuiucedu127001@63.240.76.16...
| Quote: | "Richard F. Man" <richard@imagecraft.com> wrote in
news:41BAB7C8.8020209@imagecraft.com:
Michael Noone wrote:
"Richard F. Man" <richard@imagecraft.com> wrote in
Currently there is no low cost flash downloader for the Philips. We
will be offering one for around $175-$200 in Jan 2005. Our compiler
will also be available then, for $199.
None at all? Sounds like I shall just be avoiding that series of chips
for now then!
-Michael
I am sorry. I may be giving the wrong impressions. Let me rewrite
that. Most ARM flash MCUs have a bootloader builtin, so the eaiest way
to get start is to use that and the cost is usually free. It uses a
serial port and may not have fancy stuff, but it does work.
As a tool vendor, my goal is a bit different: I want to support a
single interface if possible, , plus I want the same interface to
support debugging, so that leaves the JTAG dongle. Currently, I am not
aware of any low cost JTAG HW/SW combo that supports the LPC2K series
and we will be filling the gap.
I must admit I didn't really know what a bootloader is, so I just read
up on them. From what I can tell a bootloader would be a very good
option, but is it enabled by default on most ARM chips? I was looking at
bootloaders for AVRs, and it seemed you had to enable the bootloader via
some fuse bits, which as far as I know can only be done via a
programmer. Is it the same on ARMs, or is this not a problem? Thanks,
|
Withthe Philips ARM chips, all you have to do is hold a pin high when they
are reset, they will then load the code via one of the UARTs. Philips
provides Windows-based boot loader software.
Leon |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:52 am Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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| Quote: | The ST STR7 series originally advertised that they would support a
similar serial download but they appear to have dropped the idea.
|
Can't be so. We had an in-house dog and pony show with ST guys imported
from France just a couple of weeks ago, and they were very specific
that the STR7 had a serial bootloader capability. What wasn't specified
was if this is in separate ROM, or merely factory-programmed into a
write-protected sector of main flash. |
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R Adsett
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:55 am Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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In article <1102798379.488314.242510@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
larwe@larwe.com says...
| Quote: | The ST STR7 series originally advertised that they would support a
similar serial download but they appear to have dropped the idea.
Can't be so. We had an in-house dog and pony show with ST guys imported
from France just a couple of weeks ago, and they were very specific
that the STR7 had a serial bootloader capability. What wasn't specified
was if this is in separate ROM, or merely factory-programmed into a
write-protected sector of main flash.
That's indeed interesting. It's listed as reserved in the last few |
versions of the user manual. Earlier versions showed how serial bootload
modes was entered and only lacked details on how to use it. I've been
asking questions about it and the response I've been getting is that it's
not supported.
To quote:
"We recommend to use the JTAG for flash programming
The serial bootloader from the BOOTFLASH will not be will not be
available."
That's pretty hard to misinterpret but maybe there's a language issue.
I'd be delighted to learn I was wrong.
Robert |
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Michael Noone
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:55 am Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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"Leon Heller" <leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:41b9c85a$0$16582$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com:
| Quote: | "Michael Noone" <mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Xns95BB5D4818107mnooneuiucedu127001@204.127.199.17...
Hi - do to the recent reccomendations from a number of people here -
I think I should get familiar with ARMs. Is there an inexpensive way
to get into them? I mean for example, when I started programming
AVRs, I bought a couple AT90S8515 chips and an AVRICE, probabaly $45
total - and I was set. So are there any fairly inexpensive
programmers for ARMs? And do most people code for them in assembler,
or C, or something else? (I've only programmed in assembler, though I
do plan on learning C in the near future). So what software would I
need? I'm hoping not to spend an arm and a leg on all of this, being
that I'm just another broke college student. Also - does anybody have
any suggestions for a good chip to begin with?
The Philips LC210x is the easiest ARM chip to use, see my web page:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html
Leon
|
One more question - it seems that the Philips chips are the most
reccomended, but is there any particular reason why? Looking around, I
see that there are various other manufacturers of ARM devices,
specifcally Analog Devices and Atmel (and I expect there are varios
others as well). What makes them so different? I mean as I've said - my
primary embedded programming experience is with Atmel AVR
microcontrollers, and with them you pretty much choose the chip that has
the features you need. Moving code from one AVR to another is a fairly
simple task in most cases, at least in my experience. I mean it seems to
me that once you know how to program one AVR, you can program for most
any AVR. Is this not the case with ARM devices? Is there really that
large of a difference between chips and manufacturers? Thanks,
-Michael |
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Leon Heller
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:08 pm Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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|
"Michael Noone" <mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Xns95BD963025Amnooneuiucedu127001@204.127.204.17...
| Quote: | "Leon Heller" <leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:41b9c85a$0$16582$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com:
"Michael Noone" <mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Xns95BB5D4818107mnooneuiucedu127001@204.127.199.17...
Hi - do to the recent reccomendations from a number of people here -
I think I should get familiar with ARMs. Is there an inexpensive way
to get into them? I mean for example, when I started programming
AVRs, I bought a couple AT90S8515 chips and an AVRICE, probabaly $45
total - and I was set. So are there any fairly inexpensive
programmers for ARMs? And do most people code for them in assembler,
or C, or something else? (I've only programmed in assembler, though I
do plan on learning C in the near future). So what software would I
need? I'm hoping not to spend an arm and a leg on all of this, being
that I'm just another broke college student. Also - does anybody have
any suggestions for a good chip to begin with?
The Philips LC210x is the easiest ARM chip to use, see my web page:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html
Leon
One more question - it seems that the Philips chips are the most
reccomended, but is there any particular reason why? Looking around, I
see that there are various other manufacturers of ARM devices,
specifcally Analog Devices and Atmel (and I expect there are varios
others as well). What makes them so different? I mean as I've said - my
primary embedded programming experience is with Atmel AVR
microcontrollers, and with them you pretty much choose the chip that has
the features you need. Moving code from one AVR to another is a fairly
simple task in most cases, at least in my experience. I mean it seems to
me that once you know how to program one AVR, you can program for most
any AVR. Is this not the case with ARM devices? Is there really that
large of a difference between chips and manufacturers? Thanks,
|
The Philips ARMs run at nearly 60 MIPS from flash, and I think that they
were the first of the single-chip ARMs; that is probably why they are so
popular. Also, there are lots of low-cost boards available for them.
The new devices from Atmel and ADI are similar to those from Philips, and
all ARM chips with the same core are identical from a software point of
view.
Leon |
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R Adsett
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:19 pm Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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In article <Xns95BD963025Amnooneuiucedu127001@204.127.204.17>,
mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1 says...
| Quote: | One more question - it seems that the Philips chips are the most
reccomended, but is there any particular reason why? Looking around, I
Two main reasons, I suspect. |
- the first is simply that they were in the game early. The first
(I was aware of anyway) small package arm microcontroller (IE no external
bus).
- Probably related to number one, they have developed a large self
supporting user community.
The three other small ARMS I'm aware of (Analog Deveices, ST and Atmel)
don't appear to be generally available yet but samples are. They are
close enough to available that one of them may have started shipping
since I last checked.
Robert |
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Ulf Samuelsson
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:22 pm Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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| Quote: | One more question - it seems that the Philips chips are the most
reccomended, but is there any particular reason why?
Looking around, I see that there are various other manufacturers of ARM
devices,
specifcally Analog Devices and Atmel (and I expect there are varios
others as well). What makes them so different? I mean as I've said - my
primary embedded programming experience is with Atmel AVR
microcontrollers, and with them you pretty much choose the chip that has
the features you need. Moving code from one AVR to another is a fairly
simple task in most cases, at least in my experience. I mean it seems to
me that once you know how to program one AVR, you can program for most
any AVR. Is this not the case with ARM devices? Is there really that
large of a difference between chips and manufacturers? Thanks,
-Michael
|
Philiops has been out there with single chip flash processors for a few more
months
so people have more experience. Atmels SAM7S started sampling two months
ago so not so many have expericene.
If you go with the Atmel chips, you have a migration path up to the 200 MIPS
AT91RM9200.
The peripherals have changed somewhat since the first release of the
AT91M40400
but there are much more similarities, than differences.
You have a hard time doing that with most other companies ARM chips.
If you want to work with low end ARMs, thne you cannot get anything smaller
(and cheaper)
than the AT91SAM7S32.
There are free GNU C compiler and a Free IAR C compiler for it.
(Limited to 32kB; but who cares, when you only have 32kB ;-)
There are some new fancy low cost tools coming out in January from the AT91
Support
group but cannot tell more yet.
--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com
This is a personal view which may or may not be
share by my Employer Atmel Nordic AB |
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rickman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:20 am Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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Michael Noone wrote:
| Quote: |
One more question - it seems that the Philips chips are the most
reccomended, but is there any particular reason why? Looking around, I
see that there are various other manufacturers of ARM devices,
specifcally Analog Devices and Atmel (and I expect there are varios
others as well). What makes them so different? I mean as I've said - my
primary embedded programming experience is with Atmel AVR
microcontrollers, and with them you pretty much choose the chip that has
the features you need. Moving code from one AVR to another is a fairly
simple task in most cases, at least in my experience. I mean it seems to
me that once you know how to program one AVR, you can program for most
any AVR. Is this not the case with ARM devices? Is there really that
large of a difference between chips and manufacturers? Thanks,
-Michael
|
That is a very good question. I was looking for small ARM chips about
the time Philips announced their chip and they were not the first.
Atmel has had some good products for awhile and OKI had single chip
parts in production at that time. But no one seems to notice the OKI
parts while the Philips parts took off like a rocket in the designer
groups. Both parts are worthwhile. So you be the judge.
--
Rick "rickman" Collins
rick.collins@XYarius.com
Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY
removed.
Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com
4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice
Frederick, MD 21701-3110 GNU tools for the ARM http://www.arius.com |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:58 am Post subject:
Re: inexpensive way to get into ARM? |
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|
If you're interested in getting into ARM assembly language, but not yet
into JTAG or devices, etc, I would recommend looking into
www.gbadev.org and www.devrs.com/gba and trying your hand at Nintendo
Gameboy Advance programming (seriously).
The GBA has an ARM7TDMI core. There is an emulator called
VisualboyAdvance which runs on both Windows and Linux. You can buy a
programmable FLASH cart for the GBA for about $100 and GBAs are $80.
It makes it really easy (and fun) to get into ARM programming,
interrupt handling too. More interesting than flashing LEDs and
writing characters out of a serial port.
Once you're familiar with the instruction set (both ARM and THUMB), you
can graduate onto a more serious platform.
The sites I've listed provide links to GBA information and a
pre-compiled GCC toolchain. |
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