| Author |
Message |
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:19 am Post subject:
Re: How do you backup a small network of computers? |
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Paul J. Campbell wrote:
| Quote: | I have a home network consisting of two computers connected to a
small router via 10/100 Mbps ethernet. I have 4 IDE hard disks, each
200GB or less. The operating systems are Windows XP SP1 and SP2,
Windows 98, Linux Red Hat 9, and Linux Fedora Core 3.
Now for the hard bit - what's the easiest way to keep all of these
IDE hard drives backed up, e.g. if one of my hard drives gets errors and
fails, I'd preferably like to just replace it with a backed-up
hard drive and have it work.
I believe I would want one or more backup 'devices' to be connected
to my router, i.e. I don't think I want to keep opening up my
computers and keep putting in individual backup hard drives every
time I want to do a backup. The question is, what should those
'devices' be?
I'm a complete novice in backing up, so don't assume that I know
anything. By all means include any brand names in your answer.
Corporations don't have a lot of time to waste, so how do they do it?
I don't necessarily mind spending some money if it will give me
reliability and convenience.
Would hardware RAID 1 or RAID 5 work?
- Backing up: can the backed-up drive(s) sit on the network
outside my computer? The original hard drive is obviously
inside my computer.
- Restoring: if one of the hard drives
in my computers fails, can I replace it with a backed-up hard drive
and have it work? Will both Linux and Windows still work?
I understand that RAID is rather expensive but it may be worth it
depending on the price.
--
If that's possible, then I think this still leaves to have to deal with
one more backup methodology - if some files get deleted accidently, then
in the back-ups they will be deleted as well.
So I probably need something which also allows me to do a few
historical backups. I suppose I need something which can image my hard
drives, and (to save on cost) with the option to allow incremental
backups on subsequent backups?
I tried using Norton Ghost 9 in XP SP1 (whilst XP was running - apparently
it's supposed to support this). I did it the hard way by opening
up my computer and connecting the backup drive to it. (As I wrote above,
I'd prefer if I could have the backup drive on the network all the time,
if possible).
But it didn't work for me. Some logical drive letters seemed to back up
fine, others didn't. So I have a portion of the files backed up,
but the hard drive won't boot - Linux Red Hat 9 complains that
/boot has a 1-byte size difference compared to what is in the
Master Boot Record. Whereas Windows XP boots up to the XP logo,
but that's all it shows - it doesn't give me the normal password prompt.
On the web this Windows XP problem is mentioned by many people, but
I could never find a solution.
--
On the web I've researched a few backup devices. Something like
Netgear Storage Central (SC101) sounds good in that it allows you
to put in your own hard drives of your choice.
Buffalo TeraStation comes with an attractive 1TB of storage via
4x250GB hard drives, but I don't believe the hard drives can be taken out?
In any case if my understanding is correct, both of these devices
basically allow you to backup files. By themselves, I think they don't
come with anything to allow me to take full images of my hard disks - is
that correct?
|
Many networks are centralised. All comps use one compute's hard drive.
I.e. one comp is the file server.
But maybe with 4*(200GB) to store, that's too much for one comp.
Maybe you should get a Tape Storage thing or something like you
mentioned , that stores 1TB, then you should go to a linux machine,
and mount the partitions from all the other hard drives. So you can SEE
all other hard drives from one machine, in directories.
Then you'd just copy them over from those directories to the tape
drive.
But that's no good if you want the Whole Image of each hard drive. Then
you'd have to use ghost.
There is a Network edition of Ghost so you can run it from One machine
and ghost all the others. Then you'd copy the images onto your tape
drive.
This is all guess work. i'm a novice on backups too. |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:23 am Post subject:
Re: How do you backup a small network of computers? |
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Peter wrote:
| Quote: | That function is in your imaging software which runs on a CLIENT system,
not
storage device.
I boot my client systems with a custom CD, which does a full client PC
disk(s) image(s) to a server storage. Unattended image completion and
shutdown. Another version of it can restart client system after imaging.
I'm interested in your custom CD. Please tell me more about it.
Custom CD is based on WinPE. It automakes connection to a server share.
Enumerates local hard drives and launches ghost32 unattended image dump for
each of them.
|
What prog did you use to write that? Some kind of scripting?
Automating GUI clicking?
This isn't a function of Ghost, or anything that is always a part of
WinPE.
Norton Ghost v9 is all GUI afaik (but my knowledge don't go far!).
| Quote: | Then, shuts down PC.
|
VB?! or some other little EXE your script runs? |
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Peter
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:42 am Post subject:
Re: How do you backup a small network of computers? |
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| Quote: | Custom CD is based on WinPE. It automakes connection to a server share.
Enumerates local hard drives and launches ghost32 unattended image dump
for
each of them.
What prog did you use to write that? Some kind of scripting?
Automating GUI clicking?
This isn't a function of Ghost, or anything that is always a part of
WinPE.
Norton Ghost v9 is all GUI afaik (but my knowledge don't go far!).
Then, shuts down PC.
VB?! or some other little EXE your script runs?
|
A small tip: ghost32.exe
Another one: BartPE |
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Eric Gisin
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:16 am Post subject:
Re: How do you backup a small network of computers? |
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<jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1133375004.372997.302580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Custom CD is based on WinPE. It automakes connection to a server share.
Enumerates local hard drives and launches ghost32 unattended image dump for
each of them.
What prog did you use to write that? Some kind of scripting?
Automating GUI clicking?
This isn't a function of Ghost, or anything that is always a part of
WinPE.
Norton Ghost v9 is all GUI afaik (but my knowledge don't go far!).
Ghost32 is part of Ghost 7/8 enterprise. It is scriptable. |
Too bad it never was part of end-user versions. I found the EXE with google. |
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Googler
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: How do you backup a small network of computers? |
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"Paul J. Campbell" <paulc8+nospam@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:43899da0$0$25857$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
| Quote: | I have a home network consisting of two computers connected to a
small router via 10/100 Mbps ethernet. I have 4 IDE hard disks, each
200GB or less. The operating systems are Windows XP SP1 and SP2,
Windows 98, Linux Red Hat 9, and Linux Fedora Core 3.
|
Well Done. Good So Far
| Quote: |
Now for the hard bit - what's the easiest way to keep all of these
IDE hard drives backed up, e.g. if one of my hard drives gets errors and
fails, I'd preferably like to just replace it with a backed-up
hard drive and have it work.
|
Keep all your data on one computer. (perferably the fastest and perhaps buy
a bigger hard drive for it too). That way you only need to worry about 1
lot of backups.
If your M/Board supports it, setup a hardware raid. Software Raids are no
good if the OS shits itself. Then just add your choice of backup devices
Tape, USB HDD, DVD. You need this too, because a RAID won't protect your
data from viruses, fire, theft, etc.
| Quote: |
I believe I would want one or more backup 'devices' to be connected
to my router, i.e. I don't think I want to keep opening up my
computers and keep putting in individual backup hard drives every
time I want to do a backup. The question is, what should those
'devices' be?
|
Depends on how much to want to back up. Look for media that can be stored
off-site or in a safe place. (Tape, CD, DVD, ZIP)
| Quote: |
I'm a complete novice in backing up, so don't assume that I know
anything. By all means include any brand names in your answer.
Corporations don't have a lot of time to waste, so how do they do it?
I don't necessarily mind spending some money if it will give me
reliability and convenience.
|
You'd be supprised how many organisations don't give backups a second
thought until its too late. A good backup system should be:
7 - 14 day cycle + montly archive + yearly archive. (or 5 - 10 day cycle if
weekdays only)
| Quote: |
Would hardware RAID 1 or RAID 5 work?
|
For backups, NO! Reliability, YES!
| Quote: | - Backing up: can the backed-up drive(s) sit on the network
outside my computer? The original hard drive is obviously
inside my computer.
- Restoring: if one of the hard drives
in my computers fails, can I replace it with a backed-up hard drive
and have it work? Will both Linux and Windows still work?
I understand that RAID is rather expensive but it may be worth it
depending on the price.
|
SATA RAID 5. You need at least 3 disks for RAID 5.
| Quote: |
--
If that's possible, then I think this still leaves to have to deal with
one more backup methodology - if some files get deleted accidently, then
in the back-ups they will be deleted as well.
So I probably need something which also allows me to do a few
historical backups. I suppose I need something which can image my hard
drives, and (to save on cost) with the option to allow incremental
backups on subsequent backups?
I tried using Norton Ghost 9 in XP SP1 (whilst XP was running - apparently
it's supposed to support this). I did it the hard way by opening
up my computer and connecting the backup drive to it. (As I wrote above,
I'd prefer if I could have the backup drive on the network all the time,
if possible).
But it didn't work for me. Some logical drive letters seemed to back up
fine, others didn't. So I have a portion of the files backed up,
but the hard drive won't boot - Linux Red Hat 9 complains that
/boot has a 1-byte size difference compared to what is in the
Master Boot Record. Whereas Windows XP boots up to the XP logo,
but that's all it shows - it doesn't give me the normal password prompt.
On the web this Windows XP problem is mentioned by many people, but
I could never find a solution.
--
On the web I've researched a few backup devices. Something like
Netgear Storage Central (SC101) sounds good in that it allows you
to put in your own hard drives of your choice.
Buffalo TeraStation comes with an attractive 1TB of storage via
4x250GB hard drives, but I don't believe the hard drives can be taken out?
In any case if my understanding is correct, both of these devices
basically allow you to backup files. By themselves, I think they don't
come with anything to allow me to take full images of my hard disks - is
that correct?
|
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Maxim S. Shatskih
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: How do you backup a small network of computers? |
|
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| Quote: | If your M/Board supports it, setup a hardware raid. Software Raids are no
good if the OS shits itself.
|
I don't think Dynamic Disk is worse then the so-called "hardware" RAIDs, who
are usually implemented in driver software anyway :)
Microsoft and Veritas are more trustworthy companies for me then the Chinese
RAID chip vendor. At least for El Cheapo hardware Dynamic Disk is probably
better.
Another advantage of Dynamic Disk is easier recovery - the array will assemble
itself on any other controller flavor, the disks can be plugged in to the
controllers in any order.
And yes - RAID is not for backup, it is for redundancy. For instance, RAID will
not allow you to recover the accidentally deleted file.
--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com |
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Googler
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: How do you backup a small network of computers? |
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|
"Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
news:dms0jn$1274$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
| Quote: | If your M/Board supports it, setup a hardware raid. Software Raids are
no
good if the OS shits itself.
I don't think Dynamic Disk is worse then the so-called "hardware" RAIDs,
who
are usually implemented in driver software anyway :)
Microsoft and Veritas are more trustworthy companies for me then the
Chinese
RAID chip vendor. At least for El Cheapo hardware Dynamic Disk is probably
better.
You make a valid point, but what about hardware vendors like Intel and Asus. |
Yes they both make their good and their bad Mobo's, but when it comes down
to it "You get what you pay for" We don't want to be sitting around waiting
for Windoze to reinstall before re-creating our Raid. Also Windows XP does
not support any sort of fault tollerance. So we would still be relying on
3rd party Asian import software.
| Quote: |
Another advantage of Dynamic Disk is easier recovery - the array will
assemble
itself on any other controller flavor, the disks can be plugged in to the
controllers in any order.
I agree.
And yes - RAID is not for backup, it is for redundancy. For instance, RAID
will
not allow you to recover the accidentally deleted file.
Absolutely!
--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
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Maxim S. Shatskih
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: How do you backup a small network of computers? |
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| Quote: | for Windoze to reinstall before re-creating our Raid. Also Windows XP does
not support any sort of fault tollerance. So we would still be relying on
|
Yes. Windows XP Home does not support Dynamic Disk at all. XP Pro supports
them, but not on a laptop and IIRC not RAID5 (software RAID5 is a bad idea
anyway due to CPU load. With RAID5, the El Cheapo SATA controller is probably
more recommendable then the Dynamic Disk).
--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com |
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