Flow-charting software?
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Flow-charting software?
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Scott Kelley
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:15 am    Post subject: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
Opinions about flow charting software???

I have tried flow chart software in the past, but it wasn't very easy to
use. Anything out there now that is as easy as paper & pencil?

Thx
Scott Kelley
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kavi



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 14
Location: Planet Earth
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i would to add another relevant question.

is there any free/GPL'ed version of StateCharts tool?
or any other tool that supports C generation (not necessarily UML-based tool). Is anybody using Esterel for application-specific processor design?

thanks in advance
_________________
-kavi a.k.a. "Uncle Noah"
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Telenochek
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
I think Microsoft Visio is pretty good.
I had a bit of trouble with it when starting, but now that I have my
"Favorites" shapes all organized, its a breeze.

I don't know how good Visio is for large and complicated flowcharts,
but for simple flowcharts its really good and fast. I stopped using
paper and pensil, because an error causes you to redraw the flowchart
which wastes time.

In addition it has the usual Microsoft look to it and can export/import
in many standard formats.
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Ken Asbury
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
Scott Kelley wrote:
Quote:
Opinions about flow charting software???

I have tried flow chart software in the past, but it wasn't very easy to
use. Anything out there now that is as easy as paper & pencil?

Thx
Scott Kelley

I do a lot of contract maintenance and use Visio when I'm
learning new code. I especially like that I can insert links
to other pages/files of related Visio pages and files as well
as to other reference documents.

New code? Pseudocode.

Ken Asbury
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Steve at fivetrees
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
"Scott Kelley" <scottk@iccom.com> wrote in message
news:l-udnSODe6dpSRLeRVn-vw@centurytel.net...
Quote:
Opinions about flow charting software???

I have tried flow chart software in the past, but it wasn't very easy to
use. Anything out there now that is as easy as paper & pencil?

Yeah - any text editor and pseudo-code.

I gave up using flowcharts agout 25 years ago for various reasons:
- they don't enforce good structure
- they're always out of date (the code gets tweaked, and the flowchart
doesn't)
- the lack of any real means of generating/maintaining them
electronically, i.e. alongside the rest of the project.

I switched to using pseudo-code, i.e. a generalised structured language.
Example:

IF button pressed
THEN
get keypress
deal with keypress
ENDIF

Eventually I wrote C that was clear enough that it performed both roles and
was self-documenting, so I dropped the pseudo-code - but it still gets
rolled out for non-technical people's use.

HTH,

Steve
http://www.fivetrees.com
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larwe
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
Steve at fivetrees wrote:

Quote:
I switched to using pseudo-code, i.e. a generalised structured language.

Flowcharts work better (for me) when illustrating complicated nested
loops.

It doesn't really matter, either one is just a logical aid in designing
software.
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John Mianowski
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:00:02 -0800, "Scott Kelley" <scottk@iccom.com>
wrote:

Quote:
Opinions about flow charting software???

I have tried flow chart software in the past, but it wasn't very easy to
use. Anything out there now that is as easy as paper & pencil?

Thx
Scott Kelley


I've used Visio a lot, & can recommend it.

Another that I used to use was called AllClear, from a company called
Clear Soft. It was interesting, in that you write a brief "script" &
the program generates a chart based on the end character of each line.
I found it very useful, after I got the hang of it, & actually used it
to check logic in application designs. I don't know if it's still
around or not.

JM
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larwe
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
Quote:
Opinions about flow charting software???

My opinion: it sucks. I like to use large paper (butcher paper or
sometimes just 11x17 out of the copier) and a pencil. While sketching
flowcharts and deciding the code flow, nobody expects cosmetic
perfection. It only needs to look pretty if it's going into a
specification, whitepaper or something a suit might read. (In the
latter case, it is safe to redact the flowchart into three boxes: START
-> (Patented algorithm) -> END - since they won't understand anything
deeper than this).

It's much easier (for me) to sketch with a pencil and then, if
necessary for publication, transcribe the final edited result into a
piece of software. I HATE maintaining flowcharts electronically.
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antedeluvian
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
Actually you can do it in Microsoft Word: Insert | Picture | Autoshapes
Flowchart.

Not very elegant, a pain to use and difficult to maintain, but if yo
wanted to document a completed design, then most likely it is on you
desktop for no extra cost.

-Aubrey Kagan


Quote:
Opinions about flow charting software???

I have tried flow chart software in the past, but it wasn't very easy t

use. Anything out there now that is as easy as paper & pencil?

Thx
Scott Kelley


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Dave Hansen
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
On 2 Dec 2005 06:47:45 -0800 in comp.arch.embedded, "larwe"
<zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

Steve at fivetrees wrote:

I switched to using pseudo-code, i.e. a generalised structured language.

Flowcharts work better (for me) when illustrating complicated nested
loops.

It doesn't really matter, either one is just a logical aid in designing
software.

FWIW, I find Nassi-Schneiderman diagrams much clearer than flowcharts
for such purposes, and they help prevent you from making most of the
mistakes flowcharts allow. Google's first hit
(http://users.evitech.fi/~jaanah/IntroC/DBeech/3gl_nassi.htm) does a
pretty good job describing them.

Regards,

-=Dave

--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.
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Stef Mientki
Guest
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
larwe wrote:
Quote:
Opinions about flow charting software???


My opinion: it sucks.

ever used flowcharting software that generates the code for you ?

Stef
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Stef Mientki
Guest
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
Scott Kelley wrote:
Quote:
Opinions about flow charting software???

I have tried flow chart software in the past, but it wasn't very easy to
use. Anything out there now that is as easy as paper & pencil?

Thx
Scott Kelley



Freeware:

look for DIA, available on all platforms,

or

my favourite Diagram Designer
http://meesoft.logicnet.dk/

I used the latter one to experiment with codegeneration
(for JAL, Delphi, PICbsc) from finite state machines.
So maybe one day that'll added to Diagram Designer.

Stef Mientki
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diggerdo
Guest
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Edge Diagrammer Reply with quote
"Scott Kelley" <scottk@iccom.com> wrote in message
news:l-udnSODe6dpSRLeRVn-vw@centurytel.net...
Quote:
Opinions about flow charting software???

I have tried flow chart software in the past, but it wasn't very easy to
use. Anything out there now that is as easy as paper & pencil?

Edge Diagrammer is alot more user friendly than Visio for flowcharting.
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Oliver Betz
Guest
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
"Scott Kelley" <scottk@iccom.com> schrieb:

Quote:
Opinions about flow charting software???

graphviz dot, can be used by doxygen.

Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Muenchen (oliverbetz.de)
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Mark McDougall
Guest
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Flow-charting software? Reply with quote
Scott Kelley wrote:

Quote:
Opinions about flow charting software???

Didn't flowcharts go out in the 80's???

That was the last time I used one - for a uni assignment...

Regards,
Mark
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