| Author |
Message |
Guest
|
 Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Embedded kit creation |
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Hello all,
I am very new to the embedded world (practically none), and I am
seeking for advice and a lead as to where to start from (documents,
websites, books...). I would like to know and achieve the following:
- Can I build my own kit by purchasing controllers and additional
parts at my Radio Shack shop?
- I would like to build a small board that can run Linux, with
memory flash as external HDD or RAM, in addition to have the ability to
attach Hard drives, input devices (USB, serial, video), and output
devices capability (VGA, Analog Video).
- I would like the board to be able have its Firmware burned with
linux ( which linux for embedded devices are out there? The only one I
know is uClinux)
I know these are very vague and extensive set of requests - the
bottom line is that I want to get involved to the embedded computing
world. Perhaps I don't need to build my own board to begin with (then
I would like to know where to purchase an affordable one). I am a
programmer and I am very much looking into new applications on smaller
devices.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Jim. |
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Donald
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
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|
shija03@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Hello all,
I am very new to the embedded world (practically none), and I am
seeking for advice and a lead as to where to start from (documents,
websites, books...). I would like to know and achieve the following:
Welcome to the world of embedded systems. |
| Quote: | - Can I build my own kit by purchasing controllers and additional
parts at my Radio Shack shop?
|
NO, Radio Shack does not have ANY microprocessor chips on their shelvs.
| Quote: | - I would like to build a small board that can run Linux, with
memory flash as external HDD or RAM, in addition to have the ability to
attach Hard drives, input devices (USB, serial, video), and output
devices capability (VGA, Analog Video).
|
This will not be a "small" board. ( please define small )
If you want to "build" the board, are you capable to layout a PCB ?
PCB layout is a project in itself.
| Quote: | - I would like the board to be able have its Firmware burned with
linux ( which linux for embedded devices are out there? The only one I
know is uClinux)
Any kind of LINUX will require a Meg-bytes of ROM and Mega-bytes of RAM. |
There are Micro-Linux distrubtions out there. ( uLinux as you suggest )
But, these are not Linux. ( Linux needs an MMU, uLinux does not use one )
| Quote: | I know these are very vague and extensive set of requests - the
bottom line is that I want to get involved to the embedded computing
world. Perhaps I don't need to build my own board to begin with (then
I would like to know where to purchase an affordable one). I am a
programmer and I am very much looking into new applications on smaller
devices.
If you are doing software, then do software. Buy a board and get |
something working.
After you get use to working with your target system, then look at
building your own.
You will have your hands full enough.
| Quote: | Any help is greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Jim.
It would seem the term embedded means something different to everyone. |
If you buy a ITX mother board and stick it into a box without a screen
or keyboard, is that an embedded system?
Good Luck,
Donald |
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Neil Kurzman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
|
|
Donald wrote:
| Quote: | shija03@hotmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
I am very new to the embedded world (practically none), and I am
seeking for advice and a lead as to where to start from (documents,
websites, books...). I would like to know and achieve the following:
Welcome to the world of embedded systems.
- Can I build my own kit by purchasing controllers and additional
parts at my Radio Shack shop?
NO, Radio Shack does not have ANY microprocessor chips on their shelvs.
- I would like to build a small board that can run Linux, with
memory flash as external HDD or RAM, in addition to have the ability to
attach Hard drives, input devices (USB, serial, video), and output
devices capability (VGA, Analog Video).
This will not be a "small" board. ( please define small )
If you want to "build" the board, are you capable to layout a PCB ?
PCB layout is a project in itself.
- I would like the board to be able have its Firmware burned with
linux ( which linux for embedded devices are out there? The only one I
know is uClinux)
Any kind of LINUX will require a Meg-bytes of ROM and Mega-bytes of RAM.
There are Micro-Linux distrubtions out there. ( uLinux as you suggest )
But, these are not Linux. ( Linux needs an MMU, uLinux does not use one )
I know these are very vague and extensive set of requests - the
bottom line is that I want to get involved to the embedded computing
world. Perhaps I don't need to build my own board to begin with (then
I would like to know where to purchase an affordable one). I am a
programmer and I am very much looking into new applications on smaller
devices.
If you are doing software, then do software. Buy a board and get
something working.
After you get use to working with your target system, then look at
building your own.
You will have your hands full enough.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Jim.
It would seem the term embedded means something different to everyone.
If you buy a ITX mother board and stick it into a box without a screen
or keyboard, is that an embedded system?
Good Luck,
Donald
|
Actually Radio Shack sell a BASIC Stamp board.
But it will not run Linux. |
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Chris Hills
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:41 am Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
|
|
You are describing a small PC not an embedded system. 90% of embedded
systems don't have an RTOS let alone something the size of Linux
Start with 8051, AVR or PIC(16)
In article <1134047944.708210.81640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
shija03@hotmail.com writes
| Quote: | Hello all,
I am very new to the embedded world (practically none), and I am
seeking for advice and a lead as to where to start from (documents,
websites, books...). I would like to know and achieve the following:
- Can I build my own kit by purchasing controllers and additional
parts at my Radio Shack shop?
- I would like to build a small board that can run Linux, with
memory flash as external HDD or RAM, in addition to have the ability to
attach Hard drives, input devices (USB, serial, video), and output
devices capability (VGA, Analog Video).
- I would like the board to be able have its Firmware burned with
linux ( which linux for embedded devices are out there? The only one I
know is uClinux)
I know these are very vague and extensive set of requests - the
bottom line is that I want to get involved to the embedded computing
world. Perhaps I don't need to build my own board to begin with (then
I would like to know where to purchase an affordable one). I am a
programmer and I am very much looking into new applications on smaller
devices.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Jim.
|
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |
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Gary Schnabl
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
|
|
<shija03@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1134047944.708210.81640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hello all,
I am very new to the embedded world (practically none), and I am
seeking for advice and a lead as to where to start from (documents,
websites, books...). I would like to know and achieve the following:
- Can I build my own kit by purchasing controllers and additional
parts at my Radio Shack shop?
- I would like to build a small board that can run Linux, with
memory flash as external HDD or RAM, in addition to have the ability to
attach Hard drives, input devices (USB, serial, video), and output
devices capability (VGA, Analog Video).
- I would like the board to be able have its Firmware burned with
linux ( which linux for embedded devices are out there? The only one I
know is uClinux)
I know these are very vague and extensive set of requests - the
bottom line is that I want to get involved to the embedded computing
world. Perhaps I don't need to build my own board to begin with (then
I would like to know where to purchase an affordable one). I am a
programmer and I am very much looking into new applications on smaller
devices.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
|
Due to your relative inexperience, I suggest that you tone down your wish list until you acquire a feel of the microcontroller field. I could steer you into the 8-bit field for now and you could branch out later, after you mastered the basics. BTW, a significant proportion of new applications still run on 8-bit chips.
One reason I suggest you start on 8-bit chips is that Freescale Semiconductor has some very informative documents for beginners written a few years ago for the older, obsolete HC05 chip series. All of the HC05 instruction set can be used for the newer HC08 and HCS08 (and, most likely, whatever 8-bit series that will evolve after these).
Start your instruction on these:
http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/ref_manual/M68HC05TB.pdf
http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/train_ref_material/MCUPDFNOTESTUT.pdf
http://www.embeddedlearningcenter.com/scripts/tol.exe?SID,13586.16802.20040716&CONFIG,pc-freescale.txt&TEMPLATE,pc_main.ops&AREA,8&COURSE,24570
You can practice your embedded programming with the free HCS08 Special Edition of Freescale's CodeWarrior Development Studio, using the editor, assembler, C compiler, linker, and simulator for the programs in the tutorials or for making your own. If you want to use an evaluation board (EVB), you can get the new DEMO9S08QG8 by Axiom for $50 plus tax/shipping. This comes with three CD-ROMs containing the Special Editions of both the HCS08 and HCS12, plus another CD-ROM for the evaluation board and for several other boards, plus other useful documents and examples. If you got the $65 or so, that's a good way to start.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=DEMO9S08QG8&srch=1
Or (or and), you could try out TechOnline's VirtuaLabs. The one for the Freescale MC9S08QG8 can be found at:
http://techonline.com/community/home/38959. Sign up for free accounts at both freescale.com (Embedded Learning Center) and techonline.com (VirtuaLabs).
You should delay your PCB design for now, as that is an art and a science in itself. You should start with a proven EVB which already runs. Other manufacturers have their own EVBs in case you desire that.
Gary Schnabl
Detroit |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:02 am Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
|
|
Thank you for the numerous replies about my question. I guess I
probably was looking in the wrong area, since what I was looking to
achieve was to be able to put together (if not by me, purchase one) a
small enough system, below $100.00, that could run uCLinux.
Forgive my ignorance, but I understand that devices such as the LinkSys
router, and other network devices, along with cable tv boxes, and so
forth, have the ability to run small enough Linux systems (such as
uCLinux - or the likes). I wanted to know which board I needed to
purchase to be able to embed into it such small linux. My main goal is
to be able to create new applications (software based) for such small
and pseudo dedicated systems.
PCs are just too large - and the OS at the full PC level (I agree) are
too large. Smaller OS versions which are capable of being stripped off
unnecessary modules and capable of running on none standard systems
(smaller) is what I am looking to get involved with more from the
software aspect. I am not so sure that the references offered in this
posting do lead to such (if so, please accept my apologies for the
misinterpretation - I was not expecting that these devices would
require to be programmed by reading on/off signals or sending them -
but more to be able to extend embedded webservers and/or other built in
applications).
As I said, I might have not articulated the right message nor used the
proper terms. I would like to either obtain a board that could run
smaller OSs such as uCLinux, and also be able to interface with the OS
to extend the software applications of the OS, as well as being able to
also extend the Board ( perhaps not by me directly ) by using built in
common interfaces (USB? or Serial) which would permit to increase the
OS to output or input other content such as sound and video...
Any additional input is greatly appreciated - perhaps the right group
would be: comp.os.linux.embedded
Once again, thank you kindly,
Jim. |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Emulation instead |
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|
Hello,
I just wanted to once more thank you all, and let you know that I
have found a way to go about embedded computing.
http://skyeye.sourceforge.net/index.shtml
I was primarily lookin for a system where I could experience the
world of embedded computing. skyeye is an emulation of various ARM
architectures (ARM7TDMI, ARM720T,StrongARM, XScale).
Once again,
Thank you.
I would still rather have a low cost development system rather than
the emulator - so any leads would be greatly appreciated. |
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Donald
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
|
|
shija03@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Thank you for the numerous replies about my question. I guess I
probably was looking in the wrong area, since what I was looking to
achieve was to be able to put together (if not by me, purchase one) a
small enough system, below $100.00, that could run uCLinux.
|
Why didn't you say you wanted to hack.
Everyone thought you were building a product.
There are many off-the-self products that can be re-configured /
re-targeted.
| Quote: | Forgive my ignorance, but I understand that devices such as the LinkSys
router, and other network devices, along with cable tv boxes, and so
|
Yes, but do you want to bring out a product based on these.
Also, do you have any idea what these people paid to have these devices
built and programmed. You are just riding on their coat-tails.
| Quote: | forth, have the ability to run small enough Linux systems (such as
uCLinux - or the likes). I wanted to know which board I needed to
purchase to be able to embed into it such small linux. My main goal is
to be able to create new applications (software based) for such small
and pseudo dedicated systems.
PCs are just too large - and the OS at the full PC level (I agree) are
too large. Smaller OS versions which are capable of being stripped off
unnecessary modules and capable of running on none standard systems
(smaller) is what I am looking to get involved with more from the
software aspect. I am not so sure that the references offered in this
posting do lead to such (if so, please accept my apologies for the
misinterpretation - I was not expecting that these devices would
require to be programmed by reading on/off signals or sending them -
but more to be able to extend embedded webservers and/or other built in
applications).
As I said, I might have not articulated the right message nor used the
proper terms. I would like to either obtain a board that could run
smaller OSs such as uCLinux, and also be able to interface with the OS
to extend the software applications of the OS, as well as being able to
also extend the Board ( perhaps not by me directly ) by using built in
common interfaces (USB? or Serial) which would permit to increase the
OS to output or input other content such as sound and video...
Any additional input is greatly appreciated - perhaps the right group
would be: comp.os.linux.embedded
Once again, thank you kindly,
Jim.
|
With everyting said, I hope you find a nice toy to play with.
Happily yours,
donald
http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/OpenSlug/HomePage
http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8498487406.html |
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Vic
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
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|
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:11:39 -0700, Donald <donald@dontdoithere.com>
wrote:
Get an Xbox and put Linux on it :-) |
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Didi
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:18 am Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
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|
Vic,
are you saying there is enough publically
available information on the Xbox insides to make
porting of a non-MS OS practical?
Dimiter
------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments
http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------ |
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Donald
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
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|
Didi wrote:
| Quote: | Vic,
are you saying there is enough publically
available information on the Xbox insides to make
porting of a non-MS OS practical?
|
http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Main_Page |
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Didi
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
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Donald,
thanks for the reply!!! I had not bothered
to check, lead by the obvious assumption.
This is really great news - if the code is open
source (as I assume - hopefully correctly
this time...) it means that one
can port a variety of systems on the Xbox.
Great news indeed.
Dimiter
------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments
http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------ |
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Didi
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
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Oops, sorry,
I am a lot less enthusiastic five minutes later,
this is NOT the PPC based Xbox....
Having it documented would be some real news.
Dimiter |
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Vic
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Embedded kit creation |
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|
On 16 Dec 2005 10:18:57 -0800, "Didi" <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Vic,
are you saying there is enough publically
available information on the Xbox insides to make
porting of a non-MS OS practical?
Dimiter
------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments
http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
|
Elektor had an article (recently) about putting Linux on Xbox - if I
remember right there were some caveats, but they seem to have managed
it - maybe worth going to elektors website if your interested?
http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/
Vic |
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