| Author |
Message |
Jerry Avins
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:16 pm Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! |
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|
Jim Adamthwaite wrote:
...
| Quote: | We may gain some clarity by separating the "battle flag" of
evolution from the God question. Each may then be addressed with less
confusion.
The evolution issue is easy, even tediously simple for the numerate.
|
[simple demonstration snipped]
That's far too logical and straightforward, Jim, for anybody to be
convinced by it. If you could find a way to clothe it in bombast and
other trappings of fervor, you would become a Prophet.
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ |
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Jerry Avins
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:32 pm Post subject:
The rest of the story. |
|
|
John E. Hadstate wrote:
| Quote: | "Jim Adamthwaite" <secad@netspace.net.au> wrote in message
news:doitqs$1uf7$1@otis.netspace.net.au...
The evolution issue is easy, even tediously simple for the
numerate.
Sounds like a round-about way of saying, "figures don't lie,
but liars do figure!"
I hate to break the bad news, but both sides of this
argument are starting from a set of irrational, improbable
assumptions.
Why should I believe that modern-day humans evolved from
apes? Why should I believe that humans were created (once
only) from clay and then evolved (there's that word again)
into 4 or 5 distinct races, and that these races
subsequently remained essentially unchanged for millennia?
Both of these sound like children's fairy tales.
Douglas Adams' story about the Earth being populated by a
load of hairdressers and middle-managers from a crashed
spacecraft who subsequently killed-off their hominid
competitors and then "went native" because they had never
really mastered their own advanced technologies is more
logically consistent than any of the stupid theories being
bandied about in the mainstream. More to the point, only
the descendents of a boat load of hairdressers and
middle-managers could invent such stupid theories as
"evolution" and "creation" to explain their existence.
|
Humans came from apes, but not only from apes. Have you considered why
fetal pigs are objects of dissection in courses on human anatomy? Where
do you think Caucasians' pink skin came from, anyway? Dark skin is from
our simian precursors, and light from out porcine. There are taboos
against eating pork and primate meat in many societies, just as most
have taboos against cannibalism. Now you know why.
Here's how it came about: Long ago, a disabled spaceship landed on
Earth. Repairs required more effort than the crew alone could exert, and
there were no native species that could be recruited. Being expert
geneticists, the crew combined porcine and anthropoid genes to create --
pretty much in their own form -- work gangs with sufficient intelligence
and communication skills for mining, smelting, and other chores.
When the aliens left, they may have taken some of their creations with
them, but they left most behind. They returned at least twice; one
occasion is described in the Book of Ezekiel, the other, when they told
me about it.
The Ezekiel account is interesting. They used personal helicopters in
the atmosphere powered by small jet engines at the tips of the rotors.
To ensure against airborne pathogens, they wore canister-style
respirators like http://www.kimdara.com/photochron/gas_mask.jpg or
http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/equipment/gas-mask.jpg. It's no
wonder that Zeke wrote of circles of fire and dog-faced beings.
So there you have it folks, right down to who the Creators were.
Jerry
--
If you swallow that whole, there's more I can feed you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ |
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Jerry Avins
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:37 pm Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! |
|
|
John E. Hadstate wrote:
| Quote: | "Jim Adamthwaite" <secad@netspace.net.au> wrote in message
news:doitqs$1uf7$1@otis.netspace.net.au...
The evolution issue is easy, even tediously simple for the numerate.
Sounds like a round-about way of saying, "figures don't lie, but
liars do figure!"
I hate to break the bad news, but both sides of this argument are
starting from a set of irrational, improbable assumptions.
Why should I believe that modern-day humans evolved from apes? Why
should I believe that humans were created (once only) from clay and then |
evolved (there's that word again) into 4 or 5 distinct races, and that
these races subsequently remained essentially unchanged for millennia?
Both of these sound like children's fairy tales.
| Quote: |
Douglas Adams' story about the Earth being populated by a load of
hairdressers and middle-managers from a crashed spacecraft who |
subsequently killed-off their hominid competitors and then "went native"
because they had never really mastered their own advanced technologies
is more logically consistent than any of the stupid theories being
bandied about in the mainstream. More to the point, only the
descendents of a boat load of hairdressers and middle-managers could
invent such stupid theories as "evolution" and "creation" to explain
their existence.
Humans came from apes, but not only from apes. Have you considered why
fetal pigs are objects of dissection in courses on human anatomy? Where
do you think Caucasians' pink skin came from, anyway? Dark skin is from
our simian precursors, and light from our porcine. There are taboos
against eating pork and primate meat in many societies, just as most
have taboos against cannibalism. Now you know why.
Here's how it came about: Long ago, a disabled spaceship landed on
Earth. Repairs required more effort than the crew alone could exert, and
there were no native species that could be recruited. Being expert
geneticists, the crew combined porcine and anthropoid genes to create --
pretty much in their own form -- work gangs with sufficient intelligence
and communication skills for mining, smelting, and other chores.
When the aliens left, they may have taken some of their creations with
them, but they left most behind. They returned at least twice; one
occasion is described in the Book of Ezekiel, the other, when they told
me about it.
The Ezekiel account is interesting. They used personal helicopters in
the atmosphere powered by small jet engines at the tips of the rotors.
To ensure against airborne pathogens, they wore canister-style
respirators like http://www.kimdara.com/photochron/gas_mask.jpg or
http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/equipment/gas-mask.jpg. It's no
wonder that Zeke wrote of circles of fire and dog-faced beings.
So there you have it folks, right down to who the Creators were.
Jerry
--
If you swallow that whole, there's more I can feed you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ |
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Just Cocky
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:52 am Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 18:37:31 +1100, Jim Adamthwaite
<secad@netspace.net.au> wrote:
| Quote: |
gold wrote:
Hi DSP Gurus,
...
Gold
I see a common recurring problem in discussions about evolution.
The assumption seems to be that if God exists, then evolutionary
processes do not, and vice versa.
|
The problem for the people who adore that middle eastern god is that
Evolution conflicts with Genesis, and Genesis is *RIGHT*, period! |
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Eric Jacobsen
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 12:37:18 -0500, Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote:
| Quote: | Humans came from apes, but not only from apes. Have you considered why
fetal pigs are objects of dissection in courses on human anatomy? Where
do you think Caucasians' pink skin came from, anyway? Dark skin is from
our simian precursors, and light from our porcine. There are taboos
against eating pork and primate meat in many societies, just as most
have taboos against cannibalism. Now you know why.
Here's how it came about: Long ago, a disabled spaceship landed on
Earth. Repairs required more effort than the crew alone could exert, and
there were no native species that could be recruited. Being expert
geneticists, the crew combined porcine and anthropoid genes to create --
pretty much in their own form -- work gangs with sufficient intelligence
and communication skills for mining, smelting, and other chores.
When the aliens left, they may have taken some of their creations with
them, but they left most behind. They returned at least twice; one
occasion is described in the Book of Ezekiel, the other, when they told
me about it.
The Ezekiel account is interesting. They used personal helicopters in
the atmosphere powered by small jet engines at the tips of the rotors.
To ensure against airborne pathogens, they wore canister-style
respirators like http://www.kimdara.com/photochron/gas_mask.jpg or
http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/equipment/gas-mask.jpg. It's no
wonder that Zeke wrote of circles of fire and dog-faced beings.
So there you have it folks, right down to who the Creators were.
Jerry
|
Ooh, I like that. It explains a lot of things and even has scriptural
support! How could it be wrong!
Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms, Intel Corp.
My opinions may not be Intel's opinions.
http://www.ericjacobsen.org |
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Eric Jacobsen
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:08:19 -0500, "John E. Hadstate"
<jh113355@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | That doesn't work since human beings have approximately
65% of their DNA in
common with flatworms, for example.
That doesn't prove anything to someone who hasn't bought
into the fairy tale that Planet Earth has the only life in
the universe. Someday it may be shown that every life form
in the universe has 65% of its DNA in common with the
flatworm. If that were the case, would that be an argument
for or against the existence of God, and, if so, which?
|
Assuming, of course, that the extra-terrestrial life forms even have
DNA. Maybe they get their biological organization some other way.
Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms, Intel Corp.
My opinions may not be Intel's opinions.
http://www.ericjacobsen.org |
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John E. Hadstate
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:16 am Post subject:
Re: The rest of the story. |
|
|
"Jerry Avins" <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:ifKdnfPFa83fGzDenZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@rcn.net...
| Quote: | John E. Hadstate wrote:
Douglas Adams' story about the Earth being populated by a
load of hairdressers and middle-managers from a crashed
spacecraft who subsequently killed-off their hominid
competitors and then "went native" because they had never
really mastered their own advanced technologies is more
logically consistent than any of the stupid theories
being bandied about in the mainstream. More to the
point, only the descendents of a boat load of
hairdressers and middle-managers could invent such stupid
theories as "evolution" and "creation" to explain their
existence.
Here's how it came about: Long ago, a disabled spaceship
landed on Earth. Repairs required more effort than the
crew alone could exert, and there were no native species
that could be recruited. Being expert geneticists, the
crew combined porcine and anthropoid genes to create --
pretty much in their own form -- work gangs with
sufficient intelligence and communication skills for
mining, smelting, and other chores.
|
That's very close, but the real story was told to me by my
Dad, who heard it from his Dad, whose cousin who was hung as
a horse thief. (Notice that I did not say that he was hung
like a horse thief. I made that mistake in the sixth grade
and my mother had to come to school to pick me up.) Anyway,
I'm sure this is true since there wasn't an Internet in
those days and all such stories were much more credible as a
result.
It seems that several million years ago, intergalactic
explorers observed that the Earth was capable of supporting
their life forms. Earth was subsequently designated an
intergalactic penal colony. Criminals from nearby galaxies
were dropped-off here with nothing but their bare hands and
no hope of parole, just sink or swim. Various parts of the
planet were reserved by different civilizations, which
explains why racial differentiation tended to correlate with
geography. After a million years or so, but still hundreds
of millennia ago, the practice was discontinued and
someplace else became the dumping ground.
The main support for this theory is based on the observation
that humans, unlike virtually any other species on this
planet, tend to pity the handicapped, the weak, and the
criminal, and prefer to exile them rather than kill and/or
eat them. For example, there's the story about how places
like Australia and southeastern USA got populated by
Europe's undesirables. Nursing homes and hospices, mental
hospitals and prisons are all testament to the human
inclination to exile those we no longer want to be bothered
by.
Regardless of whether it's true, I think this story makes a
lot more sense than anything I've heard out of the God
Squad, and probably is at least as supportable as the theory
that all of us evolved from pond scum. |
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John E. Hadstate
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:16 am Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! |
|
|
"John Herman" <John_W_Herman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:igjrf.7838$hI1.1882@tornado.socal.rr.com...
| Quote: | In article <VMerf.23444$Qa1.9699@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
"John E. Hadstate" <jh113355@hotmail.com> wrote:
Douglas Adams' story about the Earth being populated by a
load of hairdressers and middle-managers from a crashed
spacecraft who subsequently killed-off their hominid
competitors and then "went native" because they had never
really mastered their own advanced technologies is more
logically consistent than any of the stupid theories being
bandied about in the mainstream. More to the point, only
the descendents of a boat load of hairdressers and
middle-managers could invent such stupid theories as
"evolution" and "creation" to explain their existence.
That doesn't work since human beings have approximately
65% of their DNA in
common with flatworms, for example.
|
That doesn't prove anything to someone who hasn't bought
into the fairy tale that Planet Earth has the only life in
the universe. Someday it may be shown that every life form
in the universe has 65% of its DNA in common with the
flatworm. If that were the case, would that be an argument
for or against the existence of God, and, if so, which? |
|
| Back to top |
|
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John Herman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:16 am Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! |
|
|
In article <VMerf.23444$Qa1.9699@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, "John E. Hadstate" <jh113355@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Douglas Adams' story about the Earth being populated by a
load of hairdressers and middle-managers from a crashed
spacecraft who subsequently killed-off their hominid
competitors and then "went native" because they had never
really mastered their own advanced technologies is more
logically consistent than any of the stupid theories being
bandied about in the mainstream. More to the point, only
the descendents of a boat load of hairdressers and
middle-managers could invent such stupid theories as
"evolution" and "creation" to explain their existence.
|
That doesn't work since human beings have approximately 65% of their DNA in
common with flatworms, for example. I think it would be more accurate to say
that all the different kinds of creatures on earth have a common ancestor
species.
I think it isn't true scientifically that people are decended from monkeys. I
think it more nearly correct to say that people and monkeys are decended from
a common ancestor species. The branch occurred several million years ago. |
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John Herman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:16 am Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! |
|
|
It's almost a certainty that we will never know the DNA structure of even the
members of our galaxy, much less the universe. But you are correct that a lot
of the life in the universe could be related in the sense it has a common
ancestor. The universe is 13 billion years and used to be smaller than it is
now.
In article <lHjrf.23474$Qa1.14674@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, "John E. Hadstate"
<jh113355@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"John Herman" <John_W_Herman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:igjrf.7838$hI1.1882@tornado.socal.rr.com...
In article <VMerf.23444$Qa1.9699@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
"John E. Hadstate" <jh113355@hotmail.com> wrote:
Douglas Adams' story about the Earth being populated by a
load of hairdressers and middle-managers from a crashed
spacecraft who subsequently killed-off their hominid
competitors and then "went native" because they had never
really mastered their own advanced technologies is more
logically consistent than any of the stupid theories being
bandied about in the mainstream. More to the point, only
the descendents of a boat load of hairdressers and
middle-managers could invent such stupid theories as
"evolution" and "creation" to explain their existence.
That doesn't work since human beings have approximately
65% of their DNA in
common with flatworms, for example.
That doesn't prove anything to someone who hasn't bought
into the fairy tale that Planet Earth has the only life in
the universe. Someday it may be shown that every life form
in the universe has 65% of its DNA in common with the
flatworm. If that were the case, would that be an argument
for or against the existence of God, and, if so, which?
|
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Randy Yates
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! (Free Book)!! Read It During Chri |
|
|
Vladimir Vassilevsky <antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> writes:
| Quote: | gold wrote:
An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could
only state that, in some sense, the origin of life appears at the
moment to be almost a miracle.1
So what?
Who created the creator?
|
Who said anything has to exist?
--
% Randy Yates % "She's sweet on Wagner-I think she'd die for Beethoven.
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % She love the way Puccini lays down a tune, and
%%% 919-577-9882 % Verdi's always creepin' from her room."
%%%% <yates@ieee.org> % "Rockaria", *A New World Record*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr |
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Vladimir Vassilevsky
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! (Free Book)!! Read It During Chri |
|
|
Randy Yates wrote:
| Quote: |
An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could
only state that, in some sense, the origin of life appears at the
moment to be almost a miracle.1
So what?
Who created the creator?
Who said anything has to exist?
|
I am already sick of the obscurantists and their boring arguments, and I
am teasing them with the paradoxes to show that their rock solid mind
set does not stand against the formal logic. Isn't it obvious that the
World is much more complicated then any simplified model of it. No
matter if a model includes gods or if it does not, still it is a talk of
blind men about the elephant. It is questionable if the understanding of
the real structure of the World can fit into the limited human logic,
like a cockroach will never understand the computer.
By any means it is not a reason for not celebrating Christmas. So I
would like to send my agnostic greetings to all open minded people.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com
"The nature is not a temple but a workshop, and the man is the one who
works there" (Turgenev) |
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Jerry Avins
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! (Free Book)!! Read It During Chri |
|
|
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
| Quote: | ... So I
would like to send my agnostic greetings to all open minded people.
|
Received, and returned with thanks.
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ |
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Randy Yates
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! (Free Book)!! Read It During Chri |
|
|
Vladimir Vassilevsky <antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> writes:
| Quote: | Randy Yates wrote:
An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could
only state that, in some sense, the origin of life appears at the
moment to be almost a miracle.1
So what?
Who created the creator?
Who said anything has to exist?
I am already sick of the obscurantists and their boring arguments, and
I am teasing them with the paradoxes to show that their rock solid
mind set does not stand against the formal logic. Isn't it obvious
that the World is much more complicated then any simplified model of
it. No matter if a model includes gods or if it does not, still it is
a talk of blind men about the elephant.
|
Well-said, Vladimir. I agree.
| Quote: | By any means it is not a reason for not celebrating Christmas. So I
would like to send my agnostic greetings to all open minded people.
|
Merry Christmas to you, Vladimir.
-
% Randy Yates % "With time with what you've learned,
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % they'll kiss the ground you walk
%%% 919-577-9882 % upon."
%%%% <yates@ieee.org> % '21st Century Man', *Time*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr |
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Roman Rumian
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject:
Re: For DSP Evolutionist!! (Free Book)!! Read It During Chri |
|
|
Hi Vladimir,
Vladimir Vassilevsky napisa³(a):
| Quote: |
gold wrote:
Hi DSP Gurus,
Proponent of evolution who are dying to prove its validity should read
this book based on solid scientific evidence to disprove darwinism. It
has also colorful pictures and easy to read.
It is quite obvious that Darwinism and evolution have many problems.
The question is if the authors can suggest anything better than that.
|
what problem ?
With proving that man wasn't crated by God ?
It is overuse of Darwin theory. Evolution is so easy obserwated, also as
a development/ design method, but it cannot explain universe creation.
So, the dogma that the God is the crator is also still valid hypothesis.
BTW, what agnostics think or say about exorcisms ?
Best regards
Roman Rumian |
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