New Linux Power5 even cheaper
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New Linux Power5 even cheaper
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Del Cecchi
Guest
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:56 pm    Post subject: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
OK, all you guys. Here is one cheap enought even for comp.arch readers
using their own money. :-)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
IBM today announced it will offer a new, low-priced IBM POWER5(TM)
processor-based server running the Linux® operating system (OS)
(snip)
The IBM eServer OpenPower 710 is a reliable, one- to two-way rack-mount
system that supports the Linux operating system as distributed by both
Red Hat and SUSE LINUX.
(snip)
The OpenPower 710 will have a starting price of $3,449 (excluding
operating system) and includes a 1.65 GHz processor, one gigabyte (GB)
memory, 73GB 10K rpm disk drive, DVD-ROM and three-year,
next-business-day warranty.
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Terje Mathisen
Guest
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
Del Cecchi wrote:
Quote:
OK, all you guys. Here is one cheap enought even for comp.arch readers
using their own money. :-)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
IBM today announced it will offer a new, low-priced IBM POWER5(TM)
processor-based server running the Linux® operating system (OS)
(snip)
The IBM eServer OpenPower 710 is a reliable, one- to two-way rack-mount
system that supports the Linux operating system as distributed by both
Red Hat and SUSE LINUX.
(snip)
The OpenPower 710 will have a starting price of $3,449 (excluding
operating system) and includes a 1.65 GHz processor, one gigabyte (GB)
memory, 73GB 10K rpm disk drive, DVD-ROM and three-year,
next-business-day warranty.

That's pretty good actually, let me compare with a 64-bit Dell...

Dual 2.8 GHz cpus, one GB RAM, 73 GB 10K SCSI, DVD and three-year
premium warranty/service:

$2500, of which $659 is for the extended warranty.

If I could make do with a single cpu and the regular one year warranty,
it would drop to $1450, or about $1100 using SATA instead of SCSI.

As another alternative, $3400 buys dual 3.2 GHz cpus and 4 GB RAM, which
would seem like a useful minimum for a 64-bit machine.

I'd love to have an AltiVec capable machine for some fun asm programming
though. :-)

Terje

--
- <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
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Anton Ertl
Guest
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:42 pm    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:
Quote:
I'd love to have an AltiVec capable machine for some fun asm programming
though. :-)

Buy a Mac mini.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
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Del Cecchi
Guest
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
Terje Mathisen wrote:
Quote:
Del Cecchi wrote:

OK, all you guys. Here is one cheap enought even for comp.arch
readers using their own money. :-)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

IBM today announced it will offer a new, low-priced IBM POWER5(TM)
processor-based server running the Linux® operating system (OS)
(snip)
The IBM eServer OpenPower 710 is a reliable, one- to two-way
rack-mount system that supports the Linux operating system as
distributed by both Red Hat and SUSE LINUX.
(snip)
The OpenPower 710 will have a starting price of $3,449 (excluding
operating system) and includes a 1.65 GHz processor, one gigabyte (GB)
memory, 73GB 10K rpm disk drive, DVD-ROM and three-year,
next-business-day warranty.


That's pretty good actually, let me compare with a 64-bit Dell...

Dual 2.8 GHz cpus, one GB RAM, 73 GB 10K SCSI, DVD and three-year
premium warranty/service:

$2500, of which $659 is for the extended warranty.

If I could make do with a single cpu and the regular one year warranty,
it would drop to $1450, or about $1100 using SATA instead of SCSI.

As another alternative, $3400 buys dual 3.2 GHz cpus and 4 GB RAM, which
would seem like a useful minimum for a 64-bit machine.

I'd love to have an AltiVec capable machine for some fun asm programming
though. :-)

Terje


Apparently this is configured as a server, not a workstation.

"It will offer redundancy in such components as power supplies, multiple
drive bays and PCI slots, and the virtualization and micro-partitioning
offered in all of IBM's Power-based servers." (from some story in the
media) But perhaps optional at extra cost.

Of course the cheapest box most likely will be some sort of "pc" thang.

Power 5 doesn't have altivec, does it?

del cecchi
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Terje Mathisen
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
Del Cecchi wrote:

Quote:
Apparently this is configured as a server, not a workstation.

My comparison machine was a rack-mount server as well.

Quote:
"It will offer redundancy in such components as power supplies, multiple
drive bays and PCI slots, and the virtualization and micro-partitioning
offered in all of IBM's Power-based servers." (from some story in the
media) But perhaps optional at extra cost.

Of course the cheapest box most likely will be some sort of "pc" thang.

Of course, I'd just like the price difference to be less severe though. :-(
Quote:

Power 5 doesn't have altivec, does it?

I was hoping it was getting there by now, so that Apple could use the chips.

Terje

--
- <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
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Terje Mathisen
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:13 am    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
Anton Ertl wrote:

Quote:
Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:

I'd love to have an AltiVec capable machine for some fun asm programming
though. :-)


Buy a Mac mini.

I know, but then I'd pay an Apple OS tax, right?

Terje

--
- <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
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Andrew Reilly
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:13:18 +0100, Terje Mathisen wrote:

Quote:
Anton Ertl wrote:

Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:

I'd love to have an AltiVec capable machine for some fun asm programming
though. :-)


Buy a Mac mini.

I know, but then I'd pay an Apple OS tax, right?

On a $500 box, you reckon?

It's still a nice Unix, anyway.

--
Andrew
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hobold
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:08 am    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
Terje Mathisen wrote:
Quote:
Anton Ertl wrote:

Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:

I'd love to have an AltiVec capable machine for some fun asm
programming
though. :-)

Buy a Mac mini.

I know, but then I'd pay an Apple OS tax, right?

Yes. Unfortunately it is more expensive to _not_ pay the Apple tax. The

G4 based hardware available from smaller vendors is more expensive than
the Mac mini. If it has to be less than $500, a used Mac is the only
option. That would be fairly dated hardware, though, because Macs tend
to have comparably high resale prices.

Holger
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del cecchi
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
"hobold" <hobold@informatik.uni-bremen.de> wrote in message
news:1106608105.912846.272980@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Terje Mathisen wrote:
Anton Ertl wrote:

Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:

I'd love to have an AltiVec capable machine for some fun asm
programming
though. :-)

Buy a Mac mini.

I know, but then I'd pay an Apple OS tax, right?

Yes. Unfortunately it is more expensive to _not_ pay the Apple tax.
The
G4 based hardware available from smaller vendors is more expensive
than
the Mac mini. If it has to be less than $500, a used Mac is the only
option. That would be fairly dated hardware, though, because Macs tend
to have comparably high resale prices.

Holger

G4? That mini-mac have the 970 in it?
>
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Andrew Reilly
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:23:20 -0600, del cecchi wrote:
Quote:
G4? That mini-mac have the 970 in it?

I'm pretty sure that "G4" means Moto PPC7450 et al; G5 is IBM PPC 970.

Cheers,

--
Andrew
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del cecchi
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
"Andrew Reilly" <andrew-newspost@areilly.bpc-users.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.25.01.11.59.57610@areilly.bpc-users.org...
Quote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:23:20 -0600, del cecchi wrote:
G4? That mini-mac have the 970 in it?

I'm pretty sure that "G4" means Moto PPC7450 et al; G5 is IBM PPC 970.

Cheers,

--
Andrew

Yes, what I meant to say was, doesn't the minimac have a g5/970 in it
like the new imac? If so, buying a 3rd party G4 would seem like a bad
deal. On the other hand, if minimac has a g4, why bother? I guess I
could go to apple's web site but this is dial up.

del
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mike
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
The new Mac-Mini has a Motorola 32 bit "G4" processor NOT an IBM 64 bit 970
"G5" processor.

Mike

"del cecchi" <dcecchi.nojunk@att.net> wrote in message
news:35lrv4F4nebmtU1@individual.net...
Quote:

"Andrew Reilly" <andrew-newspost@areilly.bpc-users.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.25.01.11.59.57610@areilly.bpc-users.org...
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:23:20 -0600, del cecchi wrote:
G4? That mini-mac have the 970 in it?

I'm pretty sure that "G4" means Moto PPC7450 et al; G5 is IBM PPC 970.

Cheers,

--
Andrew

Yes, what I meant to say was, doesn't the minimac have a g5/970 in it
like the new imac? If so, buying a 3rd party G4 would seem like a bad
deal. On the other hand, if minimac has a g4, why bother? I guess I
could go to apple's web site but this is dial up.

del

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Anton Ertl
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
"del cecchi" <dcecchi.nojunk@att.net> writes:
Quote:
Yes, what I meant to say was, doesn't the minimac have a g5/970 in it
like the new imac?

No, it has a PPC7447A, like the iBook (the board seems to be an iBook
board with faster bus clock (166MHz instead of 133MHz)).

Quote:
If so, buying a 3rd party G4 would seem like a bad
deal. On the other hand, if minimac has a g4, why bother?

Spoken like a true IBM fan.

Why buy anything else?

For programming Altivec, a PPC74xx is completely sufficient, while
the Power5 is not, as you pointed out.

An advantage of the PPC74xx over the PPC970 is that information about
the performance monitoring counters is publically available, and
therefore the Linux perfctr patch supports the PPC74xx, whereas IBM
has not provided that information for the PPC970, and therefore the
perfctr patch does not support the PPC970. That's fairly important
for me, and I would expect it to be even more important for Terje.
(For more information on how to use perfctr's perfex on the PPC7450
familiy, see
<http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/linux-perfex/ppc7450.html>).

Another advantage for Terje is, of course, that the PPC7450 at 1.42GHz
has a lower latency for his bitslice addition than a PPC970 at
2.5GHz.:-)

Oh, and for a PPC970 box you have to pay the MacOS tax, too.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
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Niels Jørgen Kruse
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:

Quote:
An advantage of the PPC74xx over the PPC970 is that information about
the performance monitoring counters is publically available, and
therefore the Linux perfctr patch supports the PPC74xx, whereas IBM
has not provided that information for the PPC970, and therefore the
perfctr patch does not support the PPC970.

Chapter 10 (page 271-338) of the 970FX users manual describe the
performance monitor. Want more details?

--
Mvh./Regards, Niels Jørgen Kruse, Vanløse, Denmark
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hobold
Guest
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: New Linux Power5 even cheaper Reply with quote
Andrew Reilly wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:13:18 +0100, Terje Mathisen wrote:
[...]
I know, but then I'd pay an Apple OS tax, right?

On a $500 box, you reckon?

It's still a nice Unix, anyway.

In fact, Apple provides their own X11 server with the OS, and there are

several projects that repackage open source software for easy istall on
OS X. My favourite is fink <http://fink.sourceforge.net/>, but there's
also darwinports <http://darwinports.opendarwin.org/>. They have sort
of joined forces <http://www.metapkg.org/>, but nothing tangible has
come out of that yet.

In short, if you have a Unix background, the switch to OS X is none.
Just install the developer tools, the optional X11 server, the optional
BSD subsystem, and fink. Then just ignore Apple's eye candy from there
on. (Not recommended, though, because then you'd miss out on Apple's
excellent CHUD performance tools
<http://developer.apple.com/tools/performance/>.)

Administration does differ quite a bit from other unices, of course.

Holger

P.S.: Forgive the shameless plug. This was the last one for the next
few months, I promise. I am just not sure for how long Apple will be
offering a Mac model for a reasonable price ... Plus, if I can talk
Terje Mathisen into AltiVec programming, mankind will likely enjoy some
interesting discoveries among the 2**80 reordering permutes and the
2**256 table lookup permutes. ;-)
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