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Greg Franks
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Replacement text for Brey: The Intel Microprocessor |
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| Quote: | "Nicholas" == Nicholas O Lindan <see@sig.com> writes:
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Nicholas> "Greg Franks" <greg@sce.carleton.ca> wrote
| Quote: | Well, 68k-based up cores are used in embedded systems
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Nicholas> They are? I may be an exception, but in ~30 years of
Nicholas> embedded systems I haven't come across more than a few.
| Quote: | and 80X86 aren't :-).
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Nicholas> It's a joke, right? That's what the stupid little thing
Nicholas> at the end of the sentence is for. How did Shakespeare
Nicholas> ever make it without emoticons?
Well, not here anyway. 68K's were the processor of choice for Nortel,
Newbridge (now Alcatel) etc. (Now they're using PPCs). The tendency
to stick with known hardware keeps the same processors floating around
in lots of other companies as people move around. So around silicon
valley north, you're hard pressed to find 80X86 stuff in embedded
systems.
| Quote: | -- we got some 68020 boards reasonably cheaply.
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Nicholas> Now we get to the truth. Why didn't you say so at the
Nicholas> beginning.
Alas, I didn't do acquistion. I personally would have preferred
something like a PPC or ARM solution.
--
Greg Franks (613) 520-2600 x1749, Fax (613) 520-5727
Systems and Computer Engineering, Carleton University
1125 Colonel Drive (ME 4244)
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1S 5B6.
http://www.sce.carleton.ca/faculty/franks.html |
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Nick Maclaren
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Replacement text for Brey: The Intel Microprocessor |
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In article <pan.2005.01.28.07.49.01.418000@westcontrol.removethis.com>,
David <david.nospam@westcontrol.removethis.com> writes:
|>
|> For teaching purposes, however, there is a lot to be gained by ColdFire if
|> you want to look at the core itself and assembly-level programming. At
|> the level of gcc + ucLinux, there's not much difference, but the more
|> flexible addressing modes of the ColdFire make it nicer for assembly
|> programming.
Actually, there are more advantages than that. One is that it was
possible to get tolerable efficiency with a 68K system with fairly
low levels of optimisation, whereas it is not so with many RISCs or
the IA64. In particular, the compiler is under MUCH less pressure
to rely on ambiguous aspects of the standards, so there is a much
higher chance than all of programmers, macro-generation tools,
analysis tools and compilers are using the same language.
This is, of course, primarily a C and C++ issue, but is present in
Fortran and other languages as well.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren. |
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Nicholas O. Lindan
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Replacement text for Brey: The Intel Microprocessor |
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"Greg Franks" <greg@sce.carleton.ca> wrote
| Quote: | "Nicholas" == Nicholas O Lindan <see@sig.com> writes:
Nicholas> "Greg Franks" <greg@sce.carleton.ca> wrote
Well, 68k-based up cores are used in embedded systems
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You might try standard quoting style. But it seems 'standards'
aren't a big thing at Carleton. Engineering without standards --
your students are in for a _big_ surprise.
| Quote: | 68K's were the processor of choice for Nortel,
Newbridge (now Alcatel) etc. (Now they're using PPCs).
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Key words: 'were', 'now ... PPC'. Rather week beer, what?
| Quote: | So around silicon valley north
Where? |
| Quote: | you're hard pressed to find 80X86 stuff in embedded
systems.
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Here is where you find embedded systems: take a crow
bar and start ripping off covers and looking at the
uP. You won't find embedded systems in a university
(without the crow bar, that is).
| Quote: | -- we got some 68020 boards reasonably cheaply.
Now we get to the truth. Why didn't you say so at the
beginning.
Alas, I didn't do acquistion. I personally would have preferred
something like a PPC or ARM solution.
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So, if the choice has _nothing_ to do with uP intrinsics why
keep bleating about the high usage of 68K in embedded systems;
there isn't any to speak of. Oh, well, at the least it won't
prejudice the students, when they get out they will have no
place to use their Motorola imprinting. Better that than
the horror inflicted on the world with universities getting
'good prices' on DEC and Unix.
There is nothing wrong with cheap, but
don't try to claim it is optimum.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ |
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Hal Porter
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Replacement text for Brey: The Intel Microprocessor |
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I had a look at the Coldfire.
It's a pretty cool chip actually, all the original 68000 addressing
modes are supported, with a few limitations. The only addressing modes
dropped are the wierd ones added in the 68020.
The 68020/80286 seemed to be the high point of the CISC era - lots of
new features that were hard to use, and harder to implement
efficiently. |
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Nicholas O. Lindan
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:55 am Post subject:
Re: Replacement text for Brey: The Intel Microprocessor |
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"Hal Porter" <tom@ridgecrop.demon.co.uk> wrote
| Quote: | The 68020/80286 seemed to be the high point of the CISC era
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For embedded I'll agree. In Intel land the 'C188 became very
popular, the original '188 ran hotter than bejesus.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ |
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Alex Gibson
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Replacement text for Brey: The Intel Microprocessor |
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"Stephen Fuld" <s.fuld@PleaseRemove.att.net> wrote in message
news:k_hKd.32680$8u5.6310@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: |
"HP" <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote in message
news:41f98948$0$13973$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de...
"Greg Franks" <greg@sce.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:7nr7k7h6fx.fsf@merlin.sce.carleton.ca...
Well, 68k-based uP cores are used in embedded systems, and 80X86
aren't :-). The students also see enough of Intel processors in lots
of other courses, so they need some exposure to other ways of
thinking.
I dunno, I'd say go for Arm if you can live with not being able to
breadboard it.
For a development type system, there are ARM boards available. For
example, Intel makes some based on their Strong Arm. You might even be
able to get an educational discount. :-)
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for some nice small arm boards
http://www.gumstix.com/
http://www.gumstix.com/sys_tinycomp.html
http://www.gumstix.org/
intel education notes etc
http://www.intel.com/education/highered/modelcurriculum.htm
http://www.intel.com/education/highered/Embedded/Embedded.htm
http://www.intel.com/education/highered/Networking/Networking.htm
http://www.intel.com/education/highered/VLSI.htm
http://www.intel.com/education/highered/Wireless/Wireless.htm
depends what you want
arm7 , arm9 , strongarm/xscale
Simply arm7 without mmu , arm9 and above with mmu
can get some cheap boards using arm7 chips
philips lpc21xx , atmel sam7 , analog
olimex make some cheap arm boards (arm7 and soon arm9 )
http://www.olimex.com/dev/
resold by spark fun in the USA
<http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=165730&cat=73&>
iar makes a few
http://www.iar.com/Products/KSDK
keil make a couple
www.keil.com
philips
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/LPC2119FBD64.html lpc2129
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/LPC2106.html lpc2106
<http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/markets/mms/products/microcontrollers/support/development_tools/lpc2100/>
<microcontrollers/support/software_download/lpc2000/index.html>
atmel sam7
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/devices.asp?family_id=605#1586
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3567
http://www.at91.com/
analog - audc 702x
http://www.analog.com/en/subCat/0,2879,762%5F%5F0%5F%5F0%5F,00.html
http://www.analog.com/en/content/0%2C2886%2C762%25255F%25255F26422%2C00.html
TI - TMS470
<http://focus.ti.com/mcu/docs/overview.tsp?familyId=454&templateId=5324&navigationId=11467&path=templatedata/cm/mcuovw/data/tms470_ovw&DCMP=TIHomeTracking&HQS=Other+OT+home_p_micro470>
Can get away with using gcc
or get education version of tools from arm |
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