| Author |
Message |
Emmet Gray
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:45 pm Post subject:
Format Iomega Rev as NTFS? |
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Has anybody tried to do a low-level reformat (and fdisk, I'd assume)
of an Iomega Rev drive to NTFS? |
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Edward Knobloch
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:01 am Post subject:
Re: Format Iomega Rev as NTFS? |
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Emmet Gray wrote:
| Quote: | Has anybody tried to do a low-level reformat (and fdisk, I'd assume)
of an Iomega Rev drive to NTFS?
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Hello, Emmet
Here is the Iomega site explaining why they Iomega used UDF
instead of NTFS or FAT32 with the removable hard disk REV system:
http://www.iomega.com/rev/rev-software.html
Regards,
Ed Knobloch |
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Emmet Gray
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:29 am Post subject:
Re: Format Iomega Rev as NTFS? |
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Yeah, that's what peeked my interest. I was wondering if anyone had
actually tried to do a reformat to NTFS
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:01:23 GMT, Edward Knobloch <alias@nowhere.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Emmet Gray wrote:
Has anybody tried to do a low-level reformat (and fdisk, I'd assume)
of an Iomega Rev drive to NTFS?
Hello, Emmet
Here is the Iomega site explaining why they Iomega used UDF
instead of NTFS or FAT32 with the removable hard disk REV system:
http://www.iomega.com/rev/rev-software.html
Regards,
Ed Knobloch |
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Nik Simpson
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Format Iomega Rev as NTFS? |
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Emmet Gray wrote:
| Quote: | Yeah, that's what peeked my interest. I was wondering if anyone had
actually tried to do a reformat to NTFS
|
There is a utility on www.sysinternals .com that lets you format floppies in
NTFS, it might well work for you as well.
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/ntfsfloppy.shtml
--
Nik Simpson |
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Jon Forrest
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject:
High Level vs Low Level Formatting (was Format Iomega Rev as |
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Emmet Gray wrote:
| Quote: | Has anybody tried to do a low-level reformat (and fdisk, I'd assume)
of an Iomega Rev drive to NTFS?
|
A file system reformat is a high-level reformat. IDE hard drives
are not low-level formatable without special equipment.
The way to think about this is as follows:
Picture a newly paved parking lot. Only parking
attendants can park cars there, and they can only
do it by putting a car in a specific parking space.
Low level formatting is equivalent to painting
the parking space lines on a newly paved parking lot.
High level formatting is equivalent to forming
collections of parking spaces, such as in a big
lot shared by a number of stores, where some of the
spaces are only to be used by store X, and others are
only to be used by store Y.
Since creating a file system is just a matter of
organizing existing disk blocks, there's no
repainting of the blocks necessary.
These days the only low level formatting that's commonly
done is on floppy and SCSI disks. My guess is that
the reason why it's not possible on IDE disks is because
the electronic logic for doing so is not built into
the standard IDE "controllers" in the disk drives, in
order to keep the controllers simple. Disk manufacturers
have special equipment that can do this.
Jon Forrest |
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Robert Wessel
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:22 am Post subject:
Re: High Level vs Low Level Formatting (was Format Iomega Re |
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Jon Forrest <forrest@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote in message news:<418A685D.3020907@ce.berkeley.edu>...
| Quote: | A file system reformat is a high-level reformat. IDE hard drives
are not low-level formatable without special equipment.
(...)
These days the only low level formatting that's commonly
done is on floppy and SCSI disks. My guess is that
the reason why it's not possible on IDE disks is because
the electronic logic for doing so is not built into
the standard IDE "controllers" in the disk drives, in
order to keep the controllers simple. Disk manufacturers
have special equipment that can do this.
|
Not exactly true. All current IDE hard drives have all the hardware
and firmware on board to do the low level format. The manufacturer
just doesn't tell people how to get at it. As a practical matter you
cannot do a low level format of a modern hard drive with anything
other than the exact set of heads that it will live its life with.
So the "special equipment" is mostly just software that knows which
special commands to actually send to the drive. I wouldn't be
surprised if in some cases it may be necessary to enable this via a
diagnostic port in some way, but I know that's not the case for
several major lines of IDE drives. |
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Jon Forrest
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:57 am Post subject:
Re: High Level vs Low Level Formatting (was Format Iomega Re |
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Robert Wessel wrote:
| Quote: | Jon Forrest <forrest@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote in message news:<418A685D.3020907@ce.berkeley.edu>...
A file system reformat is a high-level reformat. IDE hard drives
are not low-level formatable without special equipment.
(...)
These days the only low level formatting that's commonly
done is on floppy and SCSI disks. My guess is that
the reason why it's not possible on IDE disks is because
the electronic logic for doing so is not built into
the standard IDE "controllers" in the disk drives, in
order to keep the controllers simple. Disk manufacturers
have special equipment that can do this.
Not exactly true. All current IDE hard drives have all the hardware
and firmware on board to do the low level format. The manufacturer
just doesn't tell people how to get at it.
|
I'm surprised word hasn't gotten out on how to do it.
Not even SpinRite tries to do it (see below).
| Quote: | As a practical matter you
cannot do a low level format of a modern hard drive with anything
other than the exact set of heads that it will live its life with.
|
Sure, but since heads are never changed I don't see this being
a major obstacle. Also, why can SCSI controllers do it?
The real question is why somebody would want to do a low level format
in the first place. The only reason I can think of would be if the
disk has developed a bunch of bad blocks, but chances are that's a sign
of future failure, and low level formatting would only postpone the
inevitable. A low level format doesn't erase all the data on the disk,
but it makes the data very hard to find. However, people with big
security problems would not accept a low level format as a way
to erase a disk.
In any case, I stand corrected. It was just a guess.
Jon |
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Robert Wessel
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:05 am Post subject:
Re: High Level vs Low Level Formatting (was Format Iomega Re |
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Jon Forrest <forrest@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote in message news:<418FF9DB.4090109@ce.berkeley.edu>...
| Quote: | I'm surprised word hasn't gotten out on how to do it.
Not even SpinRite tries to do it (see below).
|
It's not that hard to get out of the manufacturers, at least if you're
building boxes, but the details tend to be different on every minor
revision of the drive.
| Quote: | Sure, but since heads are never changed I don't see this being
a major obstacle. Also, why can SCSI controllers do it?
|
Don't think that Format_Unit actually does a low level format on most
SCSI drives. SCSI drives have a "middle level" format where logical
blocks are assigned to physical blocks, interleave set, bad blocks are
remapped, etc. Format_Unit will update that stuff on all drives, but
not the "real" low level format on modern drives.
Again, there's typically a secret way to really do a low-level.
| Quote: | The real question is why somebody would want to do a low level format
in the first place. The only reason I can think of would be if the
disk has developed a bunch of bad blocks, but chances are that's a sign
of future failure, and low level formatting would only postpone the
inevitable. A low level format doesn't erase all the data on the disk,
but it makes the data very hard to find. However, people with big
security problems would not accept a low level format as a way
to erase a disk.
|
There are darn few reasons for an end-user to do a low-level (which is
why the capability has gone away), but if you refurbish a drive, or
have one that's been subject to extreme environmental conditions
(heat, cold, shock, vibration) for an extended period of time, it may
be useful. |
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