| Author |
Message |
flux
Guest
|
 Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:03 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
In article <8uibr0lu1pqkbf1dvkqthhdtis09k91po9@4ax.com>,
Malcolm Weir <malc@gelt.org> wrote:
| Quote: | Well, *somebody* thinks it worthwhile putting it in commodity
chipsets, which means it *is* happening, despite your ignorance.
|
"Is" sounds very recent to me.
| Quote: | Are you not familiar with the word "support"? Unlike you, I'm not
claiming absolutes.
|
1999 is not an absolute?
| Quote: | Once again, 1999.
(Actually, it predated 1999. But that was when the standard was
done).
|
Does "Is" not mean 2004?
| Quote: | So you don't *need* anything more than a 2400 baud phone line to
create a workload that involves more IO than you can get out of a SATA
drive. Which was what you seemed to think required gigabit ethernet!
|
Is this a magic trick? Can you tell us how that actually works?
| Quote: | But 1999, kid, isn't recent. It's a (drive) lifetime ago.
|
1999 = 2004?
Logic?
| Quote: | Indeed. However, unlike you, I do this for a living.
|
Does this mean all people everywhere who do their jobs for a living must
all be competent at what they do? |
|
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|
 |
flux
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:10 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
In article <cp4ghi0vth@news2.newsguy.com>,
"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | You have an odd definition of "recent". In the computer industry 5 years is
an eternity.
|
Now = 5 years ago?
| Quote: | As to the "evidence" that it is "happening at all", Fry's has
gigabit NICs for $7.99 and five-port gigabit switches for $19.99. That
didn't happen because nobody was buying the stuff, that happened because
the production volume is enormous.
|
"Happening" to me means that is being fully utilized. Are you suggesting
that people are actually filling these pipes in real office workloads
(and that real office use $19.99 switches?)?
| Quote: | Why is it so important to you that we believe that a common networking
technology, readily available, and becoming dirt cheap, is not common?
|
Not the technology, but it's utilization.
| Quote: | The time they introduced might.
The time who introduced what?
|
Gigabit devices. But just because it became available doesn't
necessarily mean there is widespread, full utilization.
| Quote: | (And I'd note you probably still haven't grasped that a tiny query can
trigger huge amounts of IO!).
So?
Try to follow the argument.
|
I don't see one.
| Quote: | How is five years old "recent" in the computer industry?
|
Now = 5 years ago?
| Quote: | So the computer industry says.
|
Is there anything more specific?
| Quote: | People who put together and run systems like
that get paid quite a lot more than your average PC technician.
|
Relevance? |
|
| Back to top |
|
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J. Clarke
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:39 pm Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
flux wrote:
| Quote: | In article <8uibr0lu1pqkbf1dvkqthhdtis09k91po9@4ax.com>,
Malcolm Weir <malc@gelt.org> wrote:
Well, *somebody* thinks it worthwhile putting it in commodity
chipsets, which means it *is* happening, despite your ignorance.
"Is" sounds very recent to me.
Are you not familiar with the word "support"? Unlike you, I'm not
claiming absolutes.
1999 is not an absolute?
|
No, it's (a) a year and (b) a matter of historical record.
| Quote: | Once again, 1999.
(Actually, it predated 1999. But that was when the standard was
done).
Does "Is" not mean 2004?
|
Huh? The fact that something is happening now does not mean that it just
started happening. It won't be "was" until 1 gig _stops_ happening.
| Quote: | So you don't *need* anything more than a 2400 baud phone line to
create a workload that involves more IO than you can get out of a SATA
drive. Which was what you seemed to think required gigabit ethernet!
Is this a magic trick? Can you tell us how that actually works?
|
He already did. Please try to pay attention in the future.
| Quote: | But 1999, kid, isn't recent. It's a (drive) lifetime ago.
1999 = 2004?
|
Huh? If you have a point you might want to try combing your hair over it.
Something with which you are clearly unfamiliar.
| Quote: | Indeed. However, unlike you, I do this for a living.
Does this mean all people everywhere who do their jobs for a living must
all be competent at what they do?
|
He'd have to go some to be less competent than you.
It's clear that you're just a stupid kid who thinks that by playing word
games he proves that he's clever, when in fact you're just coming across as
one of the dumbest SOBs in Christendom. I see no point in wasting further
time on you.
<plonk>
(now, watch him come back with a sock puppet)
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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Jesper Monsted
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:20 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
"Peter" <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote in
news:31jproF3bj6uvU1@individual.net:
| Quote: | There is a difference between warm to the touch and 22 degrees.
Someone would need to measure temperature inside of the EMC box.
Temperature kills MTBF. Again, you will loose additional 30% of MTBF
for temperature going from 25 to 34 degC.
Seagate did not say what temperature was used for MTBF testing. They
only said that recommended case temperature from 5 to 55 degC was not
exceeded.
|
I'm sure EMC is keeping an eye on the temperature of their box.
| Quote: | About a year and a half now, but this has been the same since we
turned on the things.
And that is interesting. Despite of a "bathtub" curve for a hard drive
failure rate, putting all drives in 1.5 year from manufacturing date,
would mean the best reliability period for them.
|
These drives are tested before shipping to the customer. They should be
past the lead end of the bathtub curve when they arrive at our place.
--
/Jesper Monsted |
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Jesper Monsted
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:23 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in
news:cp3bki0auk@news4.newsguy.com:
| Quote: | Which is a red flag. If it's not warm then it's probably not cooling
anything.
|
I'd go for the "there's so much air coming through those cases, the drives
can't make enough heat" explaination.
There's so much noise and airflow, i'm thinking they've put a row of jet
engines on that thing.
--
/Jesper Monsted |
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Jesper Monsted
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:34 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
flux <support@fluxsoft.com> wrote in news:support-7DF9EF.01031908122004
@news.verizon.net:
| Quote: | So you don't *need* anything more than a 2400 baud phone line to
create a workload that involves more IO than you can get out of a SATA
drive. Which was what you seemed to think required gigabit ethernet!
Is this a magic trick? Can you tell us how that actually works?
|
Load up SQLnet, connect to your oracle server over the 2400 baud link,
enter sql statement that reads sequentially through several tables, hit
enter.
It's not too hard to generate massive loads on DBMS's (or even a plain
filesystem) with a single query - the tricky part is avoiding it.
--
/Jesper Monsted |
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|
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Peter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:57 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
| Quote: | There is a difference between warm to the touch and 22 degrees.
Someone would need to measure temperature inside of the EMC box.
Temperature kills MTBF. Again, you will loose additional 30% of MTBF
for temperature going from 25 to 34 degC.
Seagate did not say what temperature was used for MTBF testing. They
only said that recommended case temperature from 5 to 55 degC was not
exceeded.
I'm sure EMC is keeping an eye on the temperature of their box.
|
I'm sure they do if that is their resposibility. But while they rate their
storage unit MTBF at, let say, 400,000hr at 25degC, they allow its operation
in ambient temperature up to 50degC. Do you think that MTBF is going to stay
at 400,000hr if teperature goes substantially above 25degC? Would they do
anything if temperature inside the box will be constantly at 35degC (well
below maximum operational limit)?
| Quote: | And that is interesting. Despite of a "bathtub" curve for a hard drive
failure rate, putting all drives in 1.5 year from manufacturing date,
would mean the best reliability period for them.
These drives are tested before shipping to the customer. They should be
past the lead end of the bathtub curve when they arrive at our place.
|
Yes they should have them properly burned-in (time, temperature, load). Were
they, for sure? |
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flux
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:18 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
In article <cp6tt31mvt@news1.newsguy.com>,
"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | 1999 is not an absolute?
No, it's (a) a year and (b) a matter of historical record.
|
What is?
| Quote: | Does "Is" not mean 2004?
Huh? The fact that something is happening now does not mean that it just
started happening. It won't be "was" until 1 gig _stops_ happening.
|
But it did just start happening.
| Quote: | So you don't *need* anything more than a 2400 baud phone line to
create a workload that involves more IO than you can get out of a SATA
drive. Which was what you seemed to think required gigabit ethernet!
Is this a magic trick? Can you tell us how that actually works?
He already did. Please try to pay attention in the future.
|
No answer?
| Quote: | But 1999, kid, isn't recent. It's a (drive) lifetime ago.
1999 = 2004?
Huh? If you have a point you might want to try combing your hair over it.
|
So 1999 does equal 2004?
| Quote: | OK. Go to www.dell.com. Look. Be enlightened.
Go to www.google.com. Enter "1000BaseT 1999". Look. Be enlightened.
Logic?
Something with which you are clearly unfamiliar.
|
Logic?
| Quote: | Indeed. However, unlike you, I do this for a living.
Does this mean all people everywhere who do their jobs for a living must
all be competent at what they do?
He'd have to go some to be less competent than you.
|
Huh? |
|
| Back to top |
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Malcolm Weir
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:22 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 06:03:24 GMT, flux <support@fluxsoft.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <8uibr0lu1pqkbf1dvkqthhdtis09k91po9@4ax.com>,
Malcolm Weir <malc@gelt.org> wrote:
Well, *somebody* thinks it worthwhile putting it in commodity
chipsets, which means it *is* happening, despite your ignorance.
"Is" sounds very recent to me.
|
That's because you are stupid.
| Quote: | Are you not familiar with the word "support"? Unlike you, I'm not
claiming absolutes.
1999 is not an absolute?
|
No, it's a date of a specific event, moron.
| Quote: | Once again, 1999.
(Actually, it predated 1999. But that was when the standard was
done).
Does "Is" not mean 2004?
|
No.
| Quote: | So you don't *need* anything more than a 2400 baud phone line to
create a workload that involves more IO than you can get out of a SATA
drive. Which was what you seemed to think required gigabit ethernet!
Is this a magic trick? Can you tell us how that actually works?
|
No magic, just some elementary knowledge, which you obviously lack.
Here's how:
1. Take a large database. I'll assume something SQL based for the
sake of argument, but that only impacts the details, not the
principle.
2. Do something like "SELECT AVG(some_numeric_field) FROM
some_large_table;"
3. That's it. The database engine will read the entire table.
You truly are ignorant, aren't you?
| Quote: | But 1999, kid, isn't recent. It's a (drive) lifetime ago.
1999 = 2004?
|
Learn to read, you hopelessly arrogant and ill-informed idiot!
Obviously, you're still not enlightened.
Do what you were told, son.
| Quote: | Indeed. However, unlike you, I do this for a living.
Does this mean all people everywhere who do their jobs for a living must
all be competent at what they do?
|
No.
Now, answer the question, kid!
What do you do?
Malc. |
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flux
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:47 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
In article <5l8sr0l0omrea7mokqbqlp186ghi3fadns@4ax.com>,
Malcolm Weir <malc@gelt.org> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 06:03:24 GMT, flux <support@fluxsoft.com> wrote:
In article <8uibr0lu1pqkbf1dvkqthhdtis09k91po9@4ax.com>,
Malcolm Weir <malc@gelt.org> wrote:
Well, *somebody* thinks it worthwhile putting it in commodity
chipsets, which means it *is* happening, despite your ignorance.
"Is" sounds very recent to me.
That's because you are stupid.
|
That makes it less recent?
| Quote: | Are you not familiar with the word "support"? Unlike you, I'm not
claiming absolutes.
1999 is not an absolute?
No, it's a date of a specific event, moron.
|
So what?
| Quote: | Once again, 1999.
(Actually, it predated 1999. But that was when the standard was
done).
Does "Is" not mean 2004?
No.
|
Yes, it does.
| Quote: | Is this a magic trick? Can you tell us how that actually works?
No magic, just some elementary knowledge, which you obviously lack.
Here's how:
1. Take a large database. I'll assume something SQL based for the
sake of argument, but that only impacts the details, not the
principle.
2. Do something like "SELECT AVG(some_numeric_field) FROM
some_large_table;"
3. That's it. The database engine will read the entire table.
|
And that is supposed to transverse the 2400 baud network?
| Quote: | You truly are ignorant, aren't you?
But 1999, kid, isn't recent. It's a (drive) lifetime ago.
1999 = 2004?
Learn to read, you hopelessly arrogant and ill-informed idiot!
|
I guess that means 1999 does not equal 2004.
| Quote: | OK. Go to www.dell.com. Look. Be enlightened.
Go to www.google.com. Enter "1000BaseT 1999". Look. Be enlightened.
Logic?
Obviously, you're still not enlightened.
|
Obviously.
| Quote: | Do what you were told, son.
Indeed. However, unlike you, I do this for a living.
Does this mean all people everywhere who do their jobs for a living must
all be competent at what they do?
No.
Now, answer the question, kid!
What do you do?
|
Correct misinformation with information. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
J. Clarke
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:44 pm Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
flux wrote:
| Quote: | In article <5l8sr0l0omrea7mokqbqlp186ghi3fadns@4ax.com>,
Malcolm Weir <malc@gelt.org> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 06:03:24 GMT, flux <support@fluxsoft.com> wrote:
In article <8uibr0lu1pqkbf1dvkqthhdtis09k91po9@4ax.com>,
Malcolm Weir <malc@gelt.org> wrote:
Well, *somebody* thinks it worthwhile putting it in commodity
chipsets, which means it *is* happening, despite your ignorance.
"Is" sounds very recent to me.
That's because you are stupid.
That makes it less recent?
Are you not familiar with the word "support"? Unlike you, I'm not
claiming absolutes.
1999 is not an absolute?
No, it's a date of a specific event, moron.
So what?
Once again, 1999.
(Actually, it predated 1999. But that was when the standard was
done).
Does "Is" not mean 2004?
No.
Yes, it does.
|
Only if you believe that blow-job isn't sex.
| Quote: | Is this a magic trick? Can you tell us how that actually works?
No magic, just some elementary knowledge, which you obviously lack.
Here's how:
1. Take a large database. I'll assume something SQL based for the
sake of argument, but that only impacts the details, not the
principle.
2. Do something like "SELECT AVG(some_numeric_field) FROM
some_large_table;"
3. That's it. The database engine will read the entire table.
And that is supposed to transverse the 2400 baud network?
|
The query does. There may not be a network in the whole bloody _world_ that
can handle the _result_ depending on how large the database is and what
it's running on. That was the point being made and one that you clearly
aren't even _trying_ to grasp, instead trying unsucessfully to show
everyone that you actually have an IQ greater than your shoe size.
| Quote: | You truly are ignorant, aren't you?
But 1999, kid, isn't recent. It's a (drive) lifetime ago.
1999 = 2004?
Learn to read, you hopelessly arrogant and ill-informed idiot!
I guess that means 1999 does not equal 2004.
OK. Go to www.dell.com. Look. Be enlightened.
Go to www.google.com. Enter "1000BaseT 1999". Look. Be enlightened.
Logic?
Obviously, you're still not enlightened.
Obviously.
Do what you were told, son.
Indeed. However, unlike you, I do this for a living.
Does this mean all people everywhere who do their jobs for a living must
all be competent at what they do?
No.
Now, answer the question, kid!
What do you do?
Correct misinformation with information.
|
Do you realize how stupid you look at this point?
If you were trolling it would be one thing, but if this is an attempt at a
troll it is one of the most pathetic I have ever seen.
Gigabit Ethernet is more than 5 years old. It is on the shelf at CompUSA
for dirt cheap prices. The successor is commercially available. Cheap
machines have been coming with Gigabit a standard feature for several
years. It is built in to all chipsets released for production this year
that incorporate networking. To argue that it is something rare or exotic
is simply to display ignorance. Since you have had this pointed out to you
by a number of people, and you have instead of grasping the concept chosen
to claim that only you have correct information, and tried to play some
kind of pathetic word game that you clearly made up yourself, one is forced
to the conclusion that your problem is not simple ignorance, which is
correctable, but rather an unwillingness or inability to learn, which is
not.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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flux
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:11 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
In article <cpn2ma228qv@news2.newsguy.com>,
"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | The query does. There may not be a network in the whole bloody _world_ that
can handle the _result_ depending on how large the database is and what
it's running on. That was the point being made and one that you clearly
|
I thought we were talking about gigaibit and network I/O. Guess not.
| Quote: | Gigabit Ethernet is more than 5 years old.
|
So where is it in actual use?
| Quote: | It is on the shelf at CompUSA
for dirt cheap prices. The successor is commercially available. Cheap
machines have been coming with Gigabit a standard feature for several
years. It is built in to all chipsets released for production this year
that incorporate networking. To argue that it is something rare or exotic
is simply to display ignorance.
|
As it is to argue that it's commonly deployed. |
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|
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Malcolm Weir
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:34 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 05:47:46 GMT, flux <support@fluxsoft.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <5l8sr0l0omrea7mokqbqlp186ghi3fadns@4ax.com>,
Malcolm Weir <malc@gelt.org> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 06:03:24 GMT, flux <support@fluxsoft.com> wrote:
In article <8uibr0lu1pqkbf1dvkqthhdtis09k91po9@4ax.com>,
Malcolm Weir <malc@gelt.org> wrote:
Well, *somebody* thinks it worthwhile putting it in commodity
chipsets, which means it *is* happening, despite your ignorance.
"Is" sounds very recent to me.
That's because you are stupid.
That makes it less recent?
|
No, it shows your stupidity!
[ Snip ]
| Quote: | Is this a magic trick? Can you tell us how that actually works?
No magic, just some elementary knowledge, which you obviously lack.
Here's how:
1. Take a large database. I'll assume something SQL based for the>> sake of argument, but that only impacts the details, not the
principle.
2. Do something like "SELECT AVG(some_numeric_field) FROM
some_large_table;"
3. That's it. The database engine will read the entire table.
And that is supposed to transverse the 2400 baud network?
|
You've just shown massive ignorance!
The AVG() function, as anyone with half a clue would guess, returns
the average.
So all that will "transverse" (you meant "traverse") the 2400 baud
link is ONE number, which is the average of (maybe) several million
values.
[ Snip ]
| Quote: | Indeed. However, unlike you, I do this for a living.
Does this mean all people everywhere who do their jobs for a living must
all be competent at what they do?
No.
Now, answer the question, kid!
What do you do?
Correct misinformation with information.
|
You've utterly failed to do that!
What school are you at? Out of junior high yet?
Malc. |
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| Back to top |
|
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Malcolm Weir
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:07 pm Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 05:11:28 GMT, flux <support@fluxsoft.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <cpn2ma228qv@news2.newsguy.com>,
"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
The query does. There may not be a network in the whole bloody _world_ that
can handle the _result_ depending on how large the database is and what
it's running on. That was the point being made and one that you clearly
I thought we were talking about gigaibit and network I/O. Guess not.
|
Evidently. However, idiot, take a look at the subject line, and ask
yourself the question "What is an Adaptec 21610SA?" and recall who
claimed that the performance of S-ATA was sufficient for gigabit
ethernet?
Here's a clue: look in a mirror!
| Quote: | Gigabit Ethernet is more than 5 years old.
So where is it in actual use?
|
Well, back in 1998 (i.e. before the standard was finalized), we used
it as a data collection channel for a test cell of a satellite sensor.
The alternative was, of course, HiPPI-800, but that precluded
convenient "dual recording" schemes if desired, because HiPPI is
point-to-point.
(I know, "flux", you have *no* idea what HiPPI is, but I'm just having
fun...)
| Quote: | It is on the shelf at CompUSA
for dirt cheap prices. The successor is commercially available. Cheap
machines have been coming with Gigabit a standard feature for several
years. It is built in to all chipsets released for production this year
that incorporate networking. To argue that it is something rare or exotic
is simply to display ignorance.
As it is to argue that it's commonly deployed.
|
Yup. Your task, now, is to show that CompUSA (and every other store)
is just stupid and no-one is buying the stuff.
We'll wait, with amusement, for your attempt to do that.
Malc.
P.s. Yeshiva Uni: not noted for its technical programs... |
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flux
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:06 am Post subject:
Re: What am I doing wrong ??? Or is Adaptec 21610SA just a c |
|
|
In article <3jmvr0tuh4queai31o8k2o2u81g91kpsjf@4ax.com>,
Malcolm Weir <malc@gelt.org> wrote:
| Quote: | That makes it less recent?
No, it shows your stupidity!
|
Because it is not recent?
| Quote: |
Is this a magic trick? Can you tell us how that actually works?
No magic, just some elementary knowledge, which you obviously lack.
Here's how:
1. Take a large database. I'll assume something SQL based for the>> sake
of argument, but that only impacts the details, not the
principle.
2. Do something like "SELECT AVG(some_numeric_field) FROM
some_large_table;"
3. That's it. The database engine will read the entire table.
And that is supposed to transverse the 2400 baud network?
You've just shown massive ignorance!
The AVG() function, as anyone with half a clue would guess, returns
the average.
So all that will "transverse" (you meant "traverse") the 2400 baud
link is ONE number, which is the average of (maybe) several million
values.
|
No, how is the ENTIRE TABLE suppose to transverse the network? I thought
this was about network throughput.
| Quote: | Correct misinformation with information.
You've utterly failed to do that!
|
Apparently. |
|
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