| Author |
Message |
Jerome
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject:
Multi-Sharc architecture |
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Right, we evaluated our application to fit in 4x 21262, using other
smaller dsp will not do the job.
I guess I'm not the first guy to use a multi sharc architecture based
on 21262 dsps !
Any block diagrams available ?
thanks
Jerome |
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Andor Bariska
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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Jerome wrote:
| Quote: | Right, we evaluated our application to fit in 4x 21262, using other
smaller dsp will not do the job.
I guess I'm not the first guy to use a multi sharc architecture based
on 21262 dsps !
|
You might well be. The 212xx and 213xx are due to lack of link ports not
really suited for multiprocessing. Better are 21161 and TigerSharcs -
beware that none of the TigerSharcs have any serial ports.
I'm not sure, does the 212xx support cluster processing?
Regards,
Andor |
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Jon Harris
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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"Andor Bariska" <an2or@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:41b6fe8d$1@news1.ethz.ch...
| Quote: | Jerome wrote:
Right, we evaluated our application to fit in 4x 21262, using other
smaller dsp will not do the job.
I guess I'm not the first guy to use a multi sharc architecture based
on 21262 dsps !
You might well be. The 212xx and 213xx are due to lack of link ports not
really suited for multiprocessing. Better are 21161 and TigerSharcs -
beware that none of the TigerSharcs have any serial ports.
I'm not sure, does the 212xx support cluster processing?
|
It looks like the 21262 doesn't have much if any support for multiprocessing.
There are no link ports and none of the shared bus/arbitration features found in
the other parts. I think they are gearing it toward audio applications where
all the processing can fit in one chip.
If you really want to use this chip, your best bet is to use the serial ports to
exchange data between the various DSPs. You could create a ring architecture
Or since each chip has 6 serial ports, there are enough for each one to have two
direct connections to the other 3, which would give you simple bi-directional
communication between any pair of DSPs. Hopefully the serial port bandwidth is
high enough for the amount of data you need to send between the chips.
The chip also has a parallel port for interfacing to "external memory devices".
Maybe that could be adapted to communicate between chips? I don't know enough
about that feature to say, not having used that chip before. But you could also
use a shared memory to pass messages and data between the chips. |
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Al Clark
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:36 am Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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"Jon Harris" <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:31p02kF3el3o6U1@individual.net:
| Quote: | "Andor Bariska" <an2or@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:41b6fe8d$1@news1.ethz.ch...
Jerome wrote:
Right, we evaluated our application to fit in 4x 21262, using other
smaller dsp will not do the job.
I guess I'm not the first guy to use a multi sharc architecture
based on 21262 dsps !
You might well be. The 212xx and 213xx are due to lack of link ports
not really suited for multiprocessing. Better are 21161 and
TigerSharcs - beware that none of the TigerSharcs have any serial
ports.
I'm not sure, does the 212xx support cluster processing?
It looks like the 21262 doesn't have much if any support for
multiprocessing. There are no link ports and none of the shared
bus/arbitration features found in the other parts. I think they are
gearing it toward audio applications where all the processing can fit
in one chip.
|
The 21262 and 21364 do not have direct support for multiprocessing.
However, they are considerably faster that the earlier SHARCs. A ADSP-
21364 is probably about the same speed as four ADSP-21161 devices.
| Quote: |
If you really want to use this chip, your best bet is to use the
serial ports to exchange data between the various DSPs. You could
create a ring architecture Or since each chip has 6 serial ports,
there are enough for each one to have two direct connections to the
other 3, which would give you simple bi-directional communication
between any pair of DSPs. Hopefully the serial port bandwidth is high
enough for the amount of data you need to send between the chips.
|
I concur that multiprocessing on the 21262 would probably be best using
SPORTS. You might consider some form of TDM as another alternative to
Jon's idea. SPORTs operate at 50 MBits/s on the 21262 (assuming 200MHz
core clock).
| Quote: |
The chip also has a parallel port for interfacing to "external memory
devices". Maybe that could be adapted to communicate between chips? I
don't know enough about that feature to say, not having used that chip
before. But you could also use a shared memory to pass messages and
data between the chips.
|
There is also the PDAP interface available from the parallel port or the
DAI. You might write data via a PP and receive via the PDAP.
We have a new building block module, our dspblok 2126x or dspblok 21364
that includes an FPGA that could also be used for interconnects. This is
a very new product that will be released next month.
ADI has also announced the ADSP-21368 that has muiltiprocessor support.
It won't be sampling until at next summer.
--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com |
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Jon Harris
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:39 am Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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"Al Clark" <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95B99ED8826BFaclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30...
| Quote: |
ADI has also announced the ADSP-21368 that has muiltiprocessor support.
It won't be sampling until at next summer.
|
Looks like a real screamer! Wonder what it will cost? I'm still waiting for my
"perfect SHARC"--link ports, multiprocessing, built-in SDRAM controller, and
300-400MHz clock speed. I might be able to live without the links and use the
SPORTs instead if everything else was there. Might be a long wait, I'm afraid.
:-) |
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Al Clark
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:27 am Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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"Jon Harris" <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:31pe45F3el4peU1@individual.net:
| Quote: | "Al Clark" <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95B99ED8826BFaclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30...
ADI has also announced the ADSP-21368 that has muiltiprocessor
support. It won't be sampling until at next summer.
Looks like a real screamer! Wonder what it will cost? I'm still
waiting for my "perfect SHARC"--link ports, multiprocessing, built-in
SDRAM controller, and 300-400MHz clock speed. I might be able to live
without the links and use the SPORTs instead if everything else was
there.
|
Might be a long wait, I'm afraid.
Not so long,
We plan to have the very first general purpose board available. (We were
first with the ADSP-21262)
If you are interested in the newer SHARCs, you might want to check out
our roadmap:
http://www.danvillesignal.com/index.php?id=roadmap
There are also links to ADI's roadmap and new product announcements.
--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com |
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Jon Harris
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:07 am Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
|
|
"Al Clark" <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95B9B196B3FEBaclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30...
| Quote: | "Jon Harris" <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:31pe45F3el4peU1@individual.net:
"Al Clark" <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95B99ED8826BFaclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30...
ADI has also announced the ADSP-21368 that has muiltiprocessor
support. It won't be sampling until at next summer.
Looks like a real screamer! Wonder what it will cost? I'm still
waiting for my "perfect SHARC"--link ports, multiprocessing, built-in
SDRAM controller, and 300-400MHz clock speed. I might be able to live
without the links and use the SPORTs instead if everything else was
there.
Might be a long wait, I'm afraid.
Not so long,
We plan to have the very first general purpose board available. (We were
first with the ADSP-21262)
If you are interested in the newer SHARCs, you might want to check out
our roadmap:
http://www.danvillesignal.com/index.php?id=roadmap
There are also links to ADI's roadmap and new product announcements.
|
Thanks, Al. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything that fits my wish list
either on your site or ADI product map. In particular, the lack of SDRAM
controller is a major problem for us and the lack of link ports is a smaller
problem as well. |
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Al Clark
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:55 am Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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"Jon Harris" <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:31pj9lF3ed0f8U1@individual.net:
| Quote: | "Al Clark" <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95B9B196B3FEBaclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30...
"Jon Harris" <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:31pe45F3el4peU1@individual.net:
"Al Clark" <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95B99ED8826BFaclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30...
ADI has also announced the ADSP-21368 that has muiltiprocessor
support. It won't be sampling until at next summer.
Looks like a real screamer! Wonder what it will cost? I'm still
waiting for my "perfect SHARC"--link ports, multiprocessing,
built-in SDRAM controller, and 300-400MHz clock speed. I might be
able to live without the links and use the SPORTs instead if
everything else was there.
Might be a long wait, I'm afraid.
Not so long,
We plan to have the very first general purpose board available. (We
were first with the ADSP-21262)
If you are interested in the newer SHARCs, you might want to check
out our roadmap:
http://www.danvillesignal.com/index.php?id=roadmap
There are also links to ADI's roadmap and new product announcements.
Thanks, Al. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything that fits my
wish list either on your site or ADI product map. In particular, the
lack of SDRAM controller is a major problem for us and the lack of
link ports is a smaller problem as well.
|
The ADSP-21367 & 21368 include an SDRAM controller. Think of the new
parts as a hybrid between the 21161 and 21364.
We have new boards coming soon (not on the roadmap or web site) that
include an FPGA and SDRAM.
--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com |
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an2or@mailcircuit.com
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:22 pm Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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Jon Harris wrote:
....
| Quote: | particular, the lack of SDRAM controller is a major problem for us
.... |
Say Jon, I've always wondered: who is us?
Regards,
Andor |
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Jon Harris
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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"Al Clark" <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95B9F35504C2Baclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30...
| Quote: | "Jon Harris" <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:31pj9lF3ed0f8U1@individual.net:
The ADSP-21367 & 21368 include an SDRAM controller. Think of the new
parts as a hybrid between the 21161 and 21364.
We have new boards coming soon (not on the roadmap or web site) that
include an FPGA and SDRAM.
|
Thanks, Al! Somehow I missed the SDRAM controller feature when I looked at
those parts. If you don't mind me asking, what is the difference between the
'67 and '68? The selection table doesn't show any differences except for
package. |
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Stephan M. Bernsee
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:42 am Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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Hi Al,
I asked this in the MacOS X development thread but apparently it got
lost: any plans to support MacOS X in the long run? There are some of
us who'd love to do their development work on that platform...
--
Stephan M. Bernsee
http://www.dspdimension.com |
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Al Clark
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:59 am Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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"Jon Harris" <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:31rks7F3ddvkmU1@individual.net:
| Quote: | "Al Clark" <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95B9F35504C2Baclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30...
"Jon Harris" <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:31pj9lF3ed0f8U1@individual.net:
The ADSP-21367 & 21368 include an SDRAM controller. Think of the new
parts as a hybrid between the 21161 and 21364.
We have new boards coming soon (not on the roadmap or web site) that
include an FPGA and SDRAM.
Thanks, Al! Somehow I missed the SDRAM controller feature when I
looked at those parts. If you don't mind me asking, what is the
difference between the '67 and '68? The selection table doesn't show
any differences except for package.
|
The ADSP-21367 is primarily aimed at large OEMs who license audio
algorithms (Dolby, DTS, etc) that reside in the ROM.
The ADSP-21368 is a more general purpose part. It is the only one that
supports multiprocessing. In also has ROM but for the rest of the world
market, it won't be used.
The new DSPs also have a few new peripherals:
1. Sample Rate Converters (also on the 21364, available soon)
2. S/PDIF transceiver (also on the 21364, available soon)
2. UARTs
3. Two Wire Interface (the legal way to avoid saying I2C)
The big change with third generation SHARCs is the abundance and
flexibilty of the peripherals. This started with the 21262. They are also
2x4 times faster than the 21161.
--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com |
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Al Clark
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:06 am Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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Stephan M. Bernsee <spam@dspdimension.com> wrote in news:31ro4kF3diedlU1
@individual.net:
| Quote: |
Hi Al,
I asked this in the MacOS X development thread but apparently it got
lost: any plans to support MacOS X in the long run? There are some of
us who'd love to do their development work on that platform...
|
Hi Stephan,
I'm not sure if I know the context of your question.
Our current dspstak boards have USB driver support (via ftdichip.com) for
most OS's including MAC. I don't know of any way to run the ADI tools
except from Windows.
BeastRider tools also support Linux. There is a 21262 version.
Of course, you could buy lots of boards and develop the MAC support
yourself ;-). We have ZERO experience with the MAC.
--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com |
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Stephan M. Bernsee
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:30 am Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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On 2004-12-09 21:06:00 +0100, Al Clark <dsp@danvillesignal.com> said:
| Quote: | Hi Stephan,
I'm not sure if I know the context of your question.
Our current dspstak boards have USB driver support (via ftdichip.com)
for most OS's including MAC. I don't know of any way to run the ADI
tools except from Windows.
BeastRider tools also support Linux. There is a 21262 version.
Of course, you could buy lots of boards and develop the MAC support
yourself ;-). We have ZERO experience with the MAC.
|
Yeah sorry for being a bit unclear - the last time I developed on an EZ
Kit in the 1990s there was no USB (it was all done with a "real" Wintel
box via RS232 IIRC) so I realize this question is indeed a bit silly
today.
Running the ADI tools from inside VPC is not the problem I suppose.
From what I remember, the problem was interfacing the hardware back
then because emulating the low level stuff via RS232 never really
worked, ie the tools didn't find the board.
But that wasn't USB and not OS X then, so I guess this should no longer
be an issue today. You did answer the actual question, too: if there
are no MacOS X tools for the DSPs then we must use VPC and the ADI
tools... worth a try at least.
--
Stephan M. Bernsee
http://www.dspdimension.com |
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Ron Huizen
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:36 am Post subject:
Re: Multi-Sharc architecture |
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"Jon Harris" <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:31pj9lF3ed0f8U1@individual.net...
| Quote: | Looks like a real screamer! Wonder what it will cost? I'm still
waiting for my "perfect SHARC"--link ports, multiprocessing, built-in
SDRAM controller, and 300-400MHz clock speed. I might be able to live
|
It already exists, though they stuck the prefix "Tiger" in front of SHARC
:-)
300 MHx for TS101 or 600 MHz for TS201, and you get your sdram controller,
links, and multiprocessing. No sports though, and maybe that's why you
don't like it?
----
Ron Huizen
BittWare |
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