| Author |
Message |
Jan Vorbrüggen
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Is AMD64 an untouchable at DELL ? |
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| Quote: | With 55K employees in 77 countries, and a contract requirement for local
delivery and support, there's _really_ not that many vendors to choose
from. :-(
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Sure. But that's based on the idea that it is beneficial to have just a single
contract for this service everywhere. I'm not sure that is really the case, or
that anybody has a study supported by evidence that decides this either way.
Jan |
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Terje Mathisen
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Is AMD64 an untouchable at DELL ? |
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Jan Vorbrüggen wrote:
| Quote: | With 55K employees in 77 countries, and a contract requirement for
local delivery and support, there's _really_ not that many vendors to
choose from. :-(
Sure. But that's based on the idea that it is beneficial to have just a
single
contract for this service everywhere. I'm not sure that is really the
case, or
that anybody has a study supported by evidence that decides this either
way.
|
You're right, that's not obvious, and for some countries onthe list, it
would have been better to go with a cheaper local vendor.
However, the total calculation was pretty compelling afair.
I.e. global rebates more than covered the extra cost in those countries
where a cheaper local alternative was available.
Terje
--
- <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" |
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YKhan
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Is AMD64 an untouchable at DELL ? |
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icerq4a@spray.se wrote:
| Quote: | I would suggest that you put your frustration on something more
important.
Take a walk and calm down.
AMD is doing pretty good even without Dell, and I don't think Dell is
unwilling to sell AMD64 products since Intel's x86-64 chips are
compatible with AMD64. As I see it, AMD has a performance advantage
in
4-way servers (that advantage is dwindling with the new IBM chipset),
the difference in 1-2 way is negliable, they do however currently
have
a lower power usage. These things change from year to year, in 2006
Intel may have an advantage, and then it makes no sense for Dell to
upset a solid supplier.
|
Actually even in 1-2 way AMD has an advantage due to the integrated
memory controller. But that's not the important thing here.
Dell is a virtual division of Intel, completely dependent on Intel's
marketing and R&D funds. Having watched Dell's excuses for not selling
AMD processors for years, they are laughable. Originally their
complaint was that there was not enough difference between Intel and
AMD processors, in the days when AMD made Intel pin-compatible
processors. Then when AMD came up with its own packaging, then their
complaint was that they were too different from Intel. Then it was
there was not enough performance difference from Intel, now that there
is a big performance difference, it's still not enough. We've also seen
complaints that AMD doesn't have enough capacity to produce for Dell,
but as it now stands AMD can produce between 30-50 million processors
by itself, I don't think Dell sell that many computers in a year by
itself. And it's got a new 300mm fab coming online with an agreement
with Chartered to use their 300mm fab as well, which should give AMD a
capacity close to 150 million processors/year (if it uses all of
Chartered's capacity that is).
AMD has done everything it can to address all of Dell's complaints and
each time there is a new complaint. It's become decidedly clear that
Dell has no intention of selling AMD processors -- ever. AMD should not
get involved with Dell any further -- they should have policy for
their sales people to not to talk to Dell until further notice, so that
they don't become a bargaining chip for Dell with Intel. If Dell can't
claim to be looking at AMD chips, then they can't extort discounts from
Intel. It'll help both Intel and AMD in that case.
Yousuf Khan |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:31 am Post subject:
Re: Is AMD64 an untouchable at DELL ? |
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YKhan wrote:
| Quote: | icerq4a@spray.se wrote:
I would suggest that you put your frustration on something more
important.
Take a walk and calm down.
AMD is doing pretty good even without Dell, and I don't think Dell
is
unwilling to sell AMD64 products since Intel's x86-64 chips are
compatible with AMD64. As I see it, AMD has a performance advantage
in
4-way servers (that advantage is dwindling with the new IBM
chipset),
the difference in 1-2 way is negliable, they do however currently
have
a lower power usage. These things change from year to year, in 2006
Intel may have an advantage, and then it makes no sense for Dell to
upset a solid supplier.
Actually even in 1-2 way AMD has an advantage due to the integrated
memory controller. But that's not the important thing here.
|
Integrated memory controller is an advantage,
but the performance differences are still negliable in my experience.
| Quote: | Dell is a virtual division of Intel, completely dependent on Intel's
marketing and R&D funds.
|
That is an exaggeration.
| Quote: | Having watched Dell's excuses for not selling
AMD processors for years, they are laughable. Originally their
complaint was that there was not enough difference between Intel and
AMD processors, in the days when AMD made Intel pin-compatible
processors. Then when AMD came up with its own packaging, then their
complaint was that they were too different from Intel. Then it was
there was not enough performance difference from Intel, now that
there
is a big performance difference, it's still not enough. We've also
seen
complaints that AMD doesn't have enough capacity to produce for Dell,
but as it now stands AMD can produce between 30-50 million processors
by itself, I don't think Dell sell that many computers in a year by
itself. And it's got a new 300mm fab coming online with an agreement
with Chartered to use their 300mm fab as well, which should give AMD
a
capacity close to 150 million processors/year (if it uses all of
Chartered's capacity that is).
|
Do you have any links to Dell "excuses", that are directly from Dell ?
| Quote: | AMD has done everything it can to address all of Dell's complaints
and
each time there is a new complaint. It's become decidedly clear that
Dell has no intention of selling AMD processors -- ever. AMD should
not
get involved with Dell any further -- they should have policy for
their sales people to not to talk to Dell until further notice, so
that
they don't become a bargaining chip for Dell with Intel. If Dell
can't
claim to be looking at AMD chips, then they can't extort discounts
from
Intel. It'll help both Intel and AMD in that case.
|
Hilarius conclusions. |
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Bob Niland
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:59 am Post subject:
Re: Is AMD64 an untouchable at DELL ? |
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| Quote: | YKhan <yjkhan@gmail.com> wrote:
Dell is a virtual division of Intel, ...
|
No, they are just an Intel hostage, and it's largely
a self-made situation. Dell put on the golden handcuffs
all by themselves.
Dell is widely reported to have the top sweetheart
deal with Intel, and that deal is evidently contingent,
in part, on Dell not promoting or selling any other
brand of CPU. When Dell discovered they had bare AMD
CPUs for sale on their parts site, they took 'em down.
Dell will continue to "investigate" AMD, and use it as
a negotiating tool with Intel. But the day Dell openly
sells even one AMD, their business model changes rather
dramatically. So Dell isn't going to offer AMD until
a radically revised bottom line _with_ AMD looks brighter
than the continuing bottom line _without_ AMD.
And because Dell+AMD would say more about Intel than it
says about Dell, Intel is going to do everything possible
to preserve the status quo. If you were a generic PC builder,
and could get Intel CPUs free, as long as you sold no
AMD, what would you do? It may be close to that bad.
Meanwhile, anyone annoyed that Dell won't sell them an
AMD box needs to just vote with their wallet, elsewhere.
It's just another reason to think twice about going Dell.
Lobbying Dell is waste of time. Their major account
clients are either asking for AMD, or not. If asking,
and Dell is ignoring them, then they'll ignore end users.
If the majors aren't asking, then onesy-twosey end users
will have little or no effect.
--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider. |
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Stephen Sprunk
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:57 am Post subject:
Re: Is AMD64 an untouchable at DELL ? |
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"Bob Niland" <email4rjn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:opsm08s30rft8z8r@news.individual.net...
| Quote: | If you were a generic PC builder, and could get Intel CPUs free, as
long as you sold no AMD, what would you do? It may be close to
that bad.
|
If I were getting Intel CPUs free (or even dirt cheap, compared to my
competitors), the three letters I'd be worried about would be FTC, not AMD.
S
--
Stephen Sprunk "Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Aaron Sorkin |
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israel
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Is AMD64 an untouchable at DELL ? |
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Kai Harrekilde-Petersen <khp@harrekilde.dk> writes:
| Quote: | If you're a large corporation, the only players out there are Dell,
HPaq, and IBM - no, wait, IBM is getting out of that business.
So, of these two options, which do you choose?
|
IBM continue to produce excellent notebooks.
IBM pcs (yes, only a corporation would love them )continue to be
available from the original manufacturer. |
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israel
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject:
Re: Is AMD64 an untouchable at DELL ? |
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Del Cecchi <cecchinospam@us.ibm.com> writes:
| Quote: | For the next few years you will still be able to buy IBM brand PCs,
including IBM Thinkpads.
del
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Thinkpads are the only notebooks that I would consider. |
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israel
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:33 pm Post subject:
Re: Is AMD64 an untouchable at DELL ? |
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"Alex Gibson" <me@privacy.net> writes:
| Quote: | Apple, a mini mac or imac would make a nice corporate box.
Backed up by a few xserves.
|
Apple appear to have abandoned the corporate market after
years of resounding non-success. |
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Dean Kent
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Is AMD64 an untouchable at DELL ? |
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<icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message
news:1109791889.421748.32210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Hilarius conclusions.
|
I find it interesting that many of the same people who say they would never
buy a Dell, or claim that Dell is junk, will also bitch about the Intel/Dell
connection and throw out as many theories as possible about the reasons.
Seems to me that Dell doesn't use AMD processors because of it's own reasons
that likely cannot be accurately divined by those not in the decision making
loop, and as suggested by others there are alternatives if you care about
what processor is in your system. If you don't care about the specific
processor, or don't buy Dell systems, then there is no reason to bitch about
what processors Dell uses. If enough people care about AMD processors, then
Dell's sales will suffer, otherwise they won't. I seem to remember that
there was some discussion about the fact that everyone but Dell has used AMD
processors, and that was supposed to force Dell's hand. Maybe the recent
Japanese antimonopoly decision against Intel will tip the balance of power.
Unless and until that happens, I'm not sure what whining about it will do.
Of course, if you are an AMD investor or have some emotional connection with
AMD, then whining and bitching is probably your best option at this point.
Regards,
Dean |
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