| Author |
Message |
john jardine
Guest
|
 Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
"Mike Monett" <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:41C970D9.663A@spam.com...
| Quote: | John Larkin wrote:
[...]
Yeah, this is snipped from the "tutok" web page you referenced...
MemberTranslator1(Callee &c,const MemFunc &m):
Functor1<P1>(thunk,&c,&m,sizeof(MemFunc)){}
static void thunk(const FunctorBase &ftor,P1 p1)
{
Callee *callee = (Callee *)ftor.callee;
MemFunc &memFunc(*(MemFunc*)(void *)(ftor.memFunc));
(callee->*memFunc)(p1);
}
};
OK, imagine trying to understand and maintain 100 millions lines
of code like this. If you passed it through triple-DES encryption,
it couldn't look much worse.
John
100 million lines? Sad, but Windows is probably getting close.
I think part of the reason for code bloat is programmers have no
restrictions on their code size or performance requirements. They
should be given 200MHz Pentium computers with an 8 gig hard drive
and 64 megs of ram. That would fix slow, bloated code real fast.
For example, my editor uses Borland SPRINT, which was last released
in 1988 and was designed to run on an 8080 with 640k of ram. It
handles 11 different types of files, including html, plain ascii,
pascal, c, assembly, email, newsgroup postings, google groups, etc.
It can load up to 27 files simultaneously and automatically detects
the file type when switching from one window to the next. It
switches the command functions as appropriate for the type of file,
so I don't have to memorize different commands and keystrokes
depending on the file type in the current window.
The editor is very compact and and loads instantly. It rarely
crashes, except when Windows crashes on a bad pointer and messes up
memory. It is blazingly fast on a 200MHz Pentium, so there is
little need for a 2GHz machine (except to read those #$%@&* Adobe
pdf files:)
Of course, this style of thinking would probably put a lot of
programmers and maybe some companies out of business. For some
strange reason, making things overly complex is good for business.
Best,
Mike Monett
|
Oh, how loudly wintel laugh on their way to the bank.
What honestly puzzles me though is, how have the computing/programming
industries avoided natural selection forces over the past 10-20 years?.
The present monopoly situation would like it that way but it seems only a
part answer. Where have all the free thinkers gone. The radicals. The
companies/individuals who can spot major failings and grab an opportunity?.
For example. Selection pressure works in the electronics industry and these
groups. A well applauded answer/solution to some need or discussion on a
complex requirement, would be one that involves great elegance, subtlety,
vast knowledge and ends up using just a few transistors and a diode. Anyone
can enjoy the result, few can appreciate the process of getting there.
Look at the programming groups. A well applauded answer to an obvious
question is one that is comprehensible only within higher ranks of the
priesthood and consumes at least half a ream of paper. (eg the above
callback 'paper'). There seems no individuals capable of or willing to break
rank.
Why was Acrobat version 6 allowed to see daylight?.
Where's the ace programmers with a vision and a bad-arsed attitude?.
I get a distinct smell/echo of a self supporting, arts type 'philosophy'
philosophy at work.
regards
john |
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John Woodgate
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:45 pm Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
I read in sci.electronics.design that john jardine
<john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote (in <cqc9h2$6cp$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.u
k>) about 'what's a callback?', on Wed, 22 Dec 2004:
| Quote: | Look at the programming groups. A well applauded answer to an obvious
question is one that is comprehensible only within higher ranks of the
priesthood and consumes at least half a ream of paper. (eg the above
callback 'paper'). There seems no individuals capable of or willing to
break rank. Why was Acrobat version 6 allowed to see daylight?. Where's
the ace programmers with a vision and a bad-arsed attitude?. I get a
distinct smell/echo of a self supporting, arts type 'philosophy'
philosophy at work.
|
I don't think we know for sure why the software business shows all the
signs of a species about to go extinct through spending too many
resources on lavish body decoration (read 'features that hardly anybody
will ever use'). It may be that corporate purchasing is to blame; it is
easier to get authorisation for $10 000 than for $100, because if it
costs $10 000, it MUST work, whereas for $1000 it MUST be too cheap. And
forget $100 entirely - that must be some sort of evil program that will
cause the company to collapse.
Even back in the 80s, lots of people were calling attention to the poor
quality of PC programs compared with, particularly, BBC Micro and Acorn
programs. No doubt RISC had something to do with that, but there was a
pride of achievement in producing compact code. The market for these
computers and their software appreciated that, too, because while memory
and storage were not hugely costly, funds were often very short and many
computers had minimal memory and disc capacity.
The people writing high-class compact code now seem confined to the same
freeware and shareware market sectors.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
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Mike Monett
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:30 pm Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
Frank Bemelman wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | This style of thinking would probably kept us all back in 1988, the release
date of your editor ;)
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
|
Heh - I run Win 3.11 on a 200MHz machine with 8 gig hard disk and 64 meg ram. Most
of the time I'm in DOS, where I use my own operating system. It responds
instantaneously to any command and rarely crashes except when Windows calls a bad
pointer and takes everything down. But a reboot only takes seconds and I'm back in
business.
Your system needs a 2GHz machine with gazillion gigabytes of hard disk and more ram
than most disk drives had in the 80's. Your operating system and word processor
take much longer to load, and you are constantly attacked by viruses, trojans,
adware, and popups.
Tell me again how things have improved since the 80's:)
(Although I do have to admit I will be happy when I can find a 2GHz machine that
will run all my code and still use my keyboard and mouse. Adobe is just too slow.)
Best,
Mike Monett |
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Richard
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:31 pm Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:41C5F993.9090009
@nospam.com:
| Quote: |
Anthony Fremont wrote:
"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
No- that is called "setting a flag to remind you to finish some
chores"
and is an example of *re-entrant code*:-) Why in the world would that
be
called "callback" unless you collect useless jargon?
That's certainly the most unique definition of re-entrancy that I've
seen.
When I think of re-entrant code, I think of code that has no local
variable storage associated to it. I also think of code that can call
itself recursively or be executed in several threads across multiple
processors concurrently with only one copy in memory.
I am not going to quibble with your high level semantics- if the code
can be re-entered to perform its processing to completion then it is
re-entrant, period. I am not interested into any universal
all-encompassing definitions. It is a *simple* ISR.
|
No, re-entrant code has a specific definition, that is not it, others
have covered it well enough in this thread.
--
Richard |
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Mike Monett
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:37 pm Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
john jardine wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Oh, how loudly wintel laugh on their way to the bank.
What honestly puzzles me though is, how have the computing/programming
industries avoided natural selection forces over the past 10-20 years?.
The present monopoly situation would like it that way but it seems only a
part answer. Where have all the free thinkers gone. The radicals. The
companies/individuals who can spot major failings and grab an opportunity?.
|
[...]
Microsoft has peaked and can only lose market share to Linux. Open Source is
becoming a viable business model. Things are improving, but remember, Rome
wasn't burned down in a day:)
Best,
Mike Monett |
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Spehro Pefhany
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:42 pm Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 09:44:50 PST, the renowned
mojaveg@mojaveg.iwvisp.com (Everett M. Greene) wrote:
| Quote: | "Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> writes:
"Mike Monett" <no@spam.com> schreef
I think part of the reason for code bloat is programmers have no
restrictions on their code size or performance requirements. They
should be given 200MHz Pentium computers with an 8 gig hard drive
and 64 megs of ram. That would fix slow, bloated code real fast.
Windows isn't bloated at all. There's just a lot of things to be dealt
with, but that happens so incredibly transparent to the casual observer,
that we take it all for granted and assume the code is bloated or something.
There's a difference between doing something because it can
be done and doing something because it's needed. Microsoft
can throw the problem of hardware resources over the wall
to the users at no cost to themselves.
For example, my editor uses Borland SPRINT, which was last released
in 1988 and was designed to run on an 8080 with 640k of ram. It
handles 11 different types of files, including html, plain ascii,
pascal, c, assembly, email, newsgroup postings, google groups, etc.
[snip]
Of course, this style of thinking would probably put a lot of
programmers and maybe some companies out of business. For some
strange reason, making things overly complex is good for business.
This style of thinking would probably kept us all back in 1988, the
release date of your editor ;)
This is precisely the thinking that's needed and necessary
for /embedded/ computing. Reliability and hardware resources
are directly impacted by keeping things as simple as possible.
|
How about this analogy?
I often need to shave dimes and pennies off of hardware for production
purposes (corresponding, of course to a multiple of that in the
selling price), but when I buy a *tool* for *business use*, an extra
$10 or $100 is often no big deal if I get something valuable in
return.
Spending a certain amount of today's bountiful desktop disk space and
processor processor bandwidth to get a tool that's as feature-rich as
makes sense to the authors of the program (hopefully) and easy to
install and configure (again) is not silly at all. Even on inexpensive
products, we sure don't write everything in tightly crafted assembler
any more. It's not as simple as possible, but rather as simple as
makes sense with the resources at hand.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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Frank Bemelman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:58 pm Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
"Everett M. Greene" <mojaveg@mojaveg.iwvisp.com> schreef in bericht
news:20041222.79D0450.92C6@mojaveg.iwvisp.com...
| Quote: | "Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> writes:
"Mike Monett" <no@spam.com> schreef
I think part of the reason for code bloat is programmers have no
restrictions on their code size or performance requirements. They
should be given 200MHz Pentium computers with an 8 gig hard drive
and 64 megs of ram. That would fix slow, bloated code real fast.
Windows isn't bloated at all. There's just a lot of things to be dealt
with, but that happens so incredibly transparent to the casual observer,
that we take it all for granted and assume the code is bloated or
something.
There's a difference between doing something because it can
be done and doing something because it's needed. Microsoft
can throw the problem of hardware resources over the wall
to the users at no cost to themselves.
|
Nobody forces you to use the latest windows software. If DOS3.22
works for you, why upgrade?
| Quote: | For example, my editor uses Borland SPRINT, which was last released
in 1988 and was designed to run on an 8080 with 640k of ram. It
handles 11 different types of files, including html, plain ascii,
pascal, c, assembly, email, newsgroup postings, google groups, etc.
[snip]
Of course, this style of thinking would probably put a lot of
programmers and maybe some companies out of business. For some
strange reason, making things overly complex is good for business.
This style of thinking would probably kept us all back in 1988, the
release date of your editor ;)
This is precisely the thinking that's needed and necessary
for /embedded/ computing. Reliability and hardware resources
are directly impacted by keeping things as simple as possible.
|
For simple middle-of-the-road embedded computing, yes.
--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email) |
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Mike Monett
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:11 am Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
Frank Bemelman wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Nobody forces you to use the latest windows software. If DOS3.22
works for you, why upgrade?
|
[...]
Actually, it's a complete operating system that runs on top of DOS, the same as
earlier versions of Windows. Here's a partial screen shot:
..\ 2F87BA86 Previous Directory
\IE50REG 2F87BA86 Backup Copy of MSIE REG16x2.DAT
\REGDATA 2F87BA87 Explorer 5.0 Verisign Certificates 93% slack
\SYSTEM 2F87BA88 System Files
\ZIP 2F87BB39 Backup Directory
NISTIMEW CFG 310B6F05 31 Configure NIST Time
LMOUSE COM 186A1940 34,658 Logitech Mouse
WIN COM 28FA792A 44,170 Win 3.1 Original
ANIMOUSE DAT 30FB555D 28 AniMouse Config
REG DAT 3196691D 55,922 Win 3.1 Original
REG16X2 DAT 2CCD8EFA 58,730 Explorer 5.0 Keep a backup copy in IE50REG
NISTIME DIF 3193BD23 1,079 Nist Time Log
WINSOCK DLL 20489086 30,516 Moved Here From G:\SYMPATIC
HK DOC 2EC67370 9,757 HotKey
ANIMOUSE EXE 1ED12800 378,464 AniMouse
CALC EXE 186A1940 43,072 Win 3.1 Accessories
CALENDAR EXE 186A1940 59,824 Win 3.1 Accessories
The columns show the file or directory name, extension, date in hex format,
filesize, and a comment field that contains information about the file. This
information goes with the file when I move or copy it to a different directory,
and the information can be changed as needed without breaking links to other
programs, such as image links in html files.
The cursor (not shown) hilites a file in yellow. Pressing various function or
command keys will erase the file, copy or move it to a different directory, or
execute a specific program associated with the file. For example, it loads an
editor or file viewer as needed, or starts Windows and loads the appropriate
program all with a single keystroke.
I have numerous search programs that can index the entire disk in minutes and
locate any file in seconds. I never have to type in a filename or directory, and
all the needed commands are under control of the cursor and function keys. I
never have to remember all the options needed with various programs, such as
PKZIP or PKUNZIP. They are all encoded and attached when the program loads.
This method is the opposite of the Windows procedure, where you load a program
first, then search for the desired file. It is several orders of magnitude
faster than Windows, and completely avoids the confusion and errors when you
cannot locate the desired file or load the wrong one.
IMHO, this is the way Windows should have been designed from the beginning.
Best,
Mike Monett |
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Frank Bemelman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:55 am Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
"Mike Monett" <no@spam.com> schreef in bericht
news:41C9BD4C.59C5@spam.com...
| Quote: | Frank Bemelman wrote:
[...]
This style of thinking would probably kept us all back in 1988, the
release
date of your editor ;)
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
Heh - I run Win 3.11 on a 200MHz machine with 8 gig hard disk and 64 meg
ram. Most
of the time I'm in DOS, where I use my own operating system. It responds
instantaneously to any command and rarely crashes except when Windows
calls a bad
pointer and takes everything down. But a reboot only takes seconds and I'm
back in
business.
Your system needs a 2GHz machine with gazillion gigabytes of hard disk and
more ram
than most disk drives had in the 80's. Your operating system and word
processor
take much longer to load, and you are constantly attacked by viruses,
trojans,
adware, and popups.
|
Well, I couldn't care less how much GHz or Gigabytes my machine has. I pay
the
$500 and take the box home. It works and I don't run out of space. Booting
takes
a minute, most applications start in less than 5 seconds except Protel that
shuffles for a minute, automatically reloading the last jobs I am working
on.
On average I reboot once a day, typically when I have been using Protel a
lot.
| Quote: | Tell me again how things have improved since the 80's:)
|
My editors have syntax highlighting, I can cut and paste between
applications,
I can view my pdf-files, either from the internet or from my own collection,
I can print my own documents as pdf's, print the stuff on the printer in the
other room, backup my files to the other computer in my small network,
design
my printed circuit boards and mail them to my manufacturer, use other
graphical
programs to make some really good looking pictures, write software for
windows
and a couple of microcontrollers such as 8051, PIC, AVR, SX, program them
with
my nifty device programmer, debug them in-circuit, have silly talks with my
brother using skype, keep my website up-to-date, running my database, acces
my
bank account, the list is endless.
| Quote: | (Although I do have to admit I will be happy when I can find a 2GHz
machine that
will run all my code and still use my keyboard and mouse. Adobe is just
too slow.) |
Always try to be happy ;)
--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email) |
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Frank Bemelman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:04 am Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
"Mike Monett" <no@spam.com> schreef in bericht
news:41C9D4F8.2617@spam.com...
| Quote: | Frank Bemelman wrote:
[...]
Nobody forces you to use the latest windows software. If DOS3.22
works for you, why upgrade?
[...]
This method is the opposite of the Windows procedure, where you load a
program
first, then search for the desired file. It is several orders of magnitude
faster than Windows, and completely avoids the confusion and errors when
you
cannot locate the desired file or load the wrong one.
|
Seems that you've got yourself organized well. But under windows I too
select
files and hit enter. Or click it with the right mouse key, and choose from
print, mail-to, compile/make, copy, zip, or whatever is a valid option for
that
particular type of file under my mouse pointer. Win3.1 never attracted me.
Much too much trouble with that. But a lot has improved since then.
--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email) |
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Mark Zenier
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:42 am Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
In article <pan.2004.12.21.03.29.34.610515@example.net>,
Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
According to my local dictionary, it's just geo-duck, like geocities.
Unless it's supposed to be a hard "g", as in "gooey".
|
It is. Gooey-Duck.
Tried to dig one once, but the sucker was about three feet down under a
strata of clay on it's way to shale. Probably how it managed to survive
on a beach about 4 miles from Seattle. I was probably the 10th guy
to try to dig up that damn clam. (The commercial stuff is dug by divers
below the tide line).
Hot stuff for sushi, I hear. Didn't used to be, then some marketeer,
about 10-15 years ago, decided to boost its supposed aphrodisiac
qualities based on its appearance. (Selling stuff is what this town
is really good at. Started with those gold miners. Coffee, anyone).
Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com Washington State resident |
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Anton Erasmus
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:10:08 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"
<f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Monett" <no@spam.com> schreef in bericht
news:41C970D9.663A@spam.com...
I think part of the reason for code bloat is programmers have no
restrictions on their code size or performance requirements. They
should be given 200MHz Pentium computers with an 8 gig hard drive
and 64 megs of ram. That would fix slow, bloated code real fast.
Windows isn't bloated at all. There's just a lot of things to be dealt
with, but that happens so incredibly transparent to the casual observer,
that we take it all for granted and assume the code is bloated or something.
|
You obviously have never looked at the 1 Floppy demo from QNX.
(Download from
http://qnx.projektas.lt/qnxdemo/QNXDEMO_405_network.ZIP)
One does NOT need hundreds of megabytes for a GUI based desktop
userinterface. Also look at RiscOS 3.11 that was available on a
machine with 1MB of RAM (512kB of ROM for OS). Now almost 20 years
later it is a bit dated, but Windows XP today does not have that much
extra, and it still does not have anti-aliased font handling. A fullt
featured DTP App with scaleble fonts (anti-aliased), with vector, and
bitmap embedded picture support. (The pictures can actually be
rotated, in the document which is still not possible with MS Word).
This App ran from 1x 3.5" floppy.
| Quote: | For example, my editor uses Borland SPRINT, which was last released
in 1988 and was designed to run on an 8080 with 640k of ram. It
handles 11 different types of files, including html, plain ascii,
pascal, c, assembly, email, newsgroup postings, google groups, etc.
[snip]
Of course, this style of thinking would probably put a lot of
programmers and maybe some companies out of business. For some
strange reason, making things overly complex is good for business.
This style of thinking would probably kept us all back in 1988, the release
date of your editor ;)
|
The expectation that one needs multi-megabyte applications, that has
been created largely by Microsoft is actually holding things up these
days. Todays hardware, with apps written a bit better would be
unbelievably fast.
Regards
Anton Erasmus |
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Everett M. Greene
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:37 pm Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> writes:
| Quote: | "Mike Monett" <no@spam.com> schreef in bericht
[snip]
Tell me again how things have improved since the 80's:)
My editors have syntax highlighting, I can cut and paste between
applications,
I can view my pdf-files, either from the internet or from my own collection,
I can print my own documents as pdf's, print the stuff on the printer in the
other room, backup my files to the other computer in my small network,
design
my printed circuit boards and mail them to my manufacturer, use other
graphical
programs to make some really good looking pictures, write software for
windows
and a couple of microcontrollers such as 8051, PIC, AVR, SX, program them
with
my nifty device programmer, debug them in-circuit, have silly talks with my
brother using skype, keep my website up-to-date, running my database, acces
my
bank account, the list is endless.
|
AmigaDOS, circa 1985, lets you do all that and occupies
about 1 Mbyte of ROM/RAM and less than 5 Mbyte of disk
space. |
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|
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:24 am Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
If a cold reading, screen test or other audition is successful, you
will get a callback.
Every actor in LA and NY will tell you that. The majority of people on
this thread are morons.
Now, there's also this fringe use of the term used by "computer
programmers", whatever that means. Basically, if you call a function
with a pointer to one of your own function, such that your function
will be called at some time either synchronously (a-la qsort) or
asynchronously (a-la signal(), or interrupt or button-press) then that
target function is a callback.
An interrupt is a low-level callback, of sorts.
A POSIX signal handler is a callback, of sorts.
The qsort comparator is a callback.
Basically any "registered" or "plug-in" function call is a callback. A
callback can be used within a module or library for its own purposes or
used as a mechanism to call external functions.
A virtual function in a child class is not, by definition, a callback,
but the overall observer framework may use it like a callback, so for
example you can have a CButtonObserver class with a buttonPress()
method.
So if a framework defines a non-local control flow, where an
application's functions are called somewhat asynchronously, then
callbacks are used.
So if I pass a library a pointer to function X, but that library has no
knowledge of function X other than the fact that it now has a pointer
to it... and at some point the library calls function X, then X is a
callback. This is what I mean by non-local control flow. X is not
part of the core library implementation (a-la qsort), it's an
externally provided function.
God damn it.
There are three types of programmer: Those who can use "callback"
without having to write an essay, those like me who will write an
essay, but still not articulate it clearly, and those who just write a
10 line "C" program so that other's go, "Oh, yeah... I see it.". |
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Frank Bemelman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:53 am Post subject:
Re: what's a callback? |
|
|
"Anton Erasmus" <nobody@spam.prevent.net> schreef in bericht
news:1103802690.d16ba34b331eb6562ca740108e8bb67e@teranews...
| Quote: | On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:10:08 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"
f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote:
"Mike Monett" <no@spam.com> schreef in bericht
news:41C970D9.663A@spam.com...
I think part of the reason for code bloat is programmers have no
restrictions on their code size or performance requirements. They
should be given 200MHz Pentium computers with an 8 gig hard drive
and 64 megs of ram. That would fix slow, bloated code real fast.
Windows isn't bloated at all. There's just a lot of things to be dealt
with, but that happens so incredibly transparent to the casual observer,
that we take it all for granted and assume the code is bloated or
something.
You obviously have never looked at the 1 Floppy demo from QNX.
(Download from
http://qnx.projektas.lt/qnxdemo/QNXDEMO_405_network.ZIP)
|
You obviously never looked at a typical Linux distribution that
comes on 4 CD's. Or what about 8 CD's and a DVD:
http://store.mandrakesoft.com/product_info.php?products_id=166&osCsid=7f8b48da611942205d5bf4553185534d
A complete WIN98SE installation directory is 109MB.
| Quote: | One does NOT need hundreds of megabytes for a GUI based desktop
userinterface. Also look at RiscOS 3.11 that was available on a
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No, but it comes as hundreds of megabytes these days, because there
is little reason to squeeze it in less. What I remember from ~10 years
back is that windows 3.x came on a bunch of floppies. That were
perhaps 20 floppies or 30MB. Those were also the days that you really
ran out of memory or disk space, if you were careless. Today I don't
bother about it all. I save/keep everything, even emails that have
megabyte attachements. It is not that it is a lost art or something,
for instance PocketPC Windows doesn't take up that much space either.
My point is that the argument that Windows is 'bloated' doesn't hold.
I bet that there are more PIC's running (relative) bloated code than
PC's. Programmers at Microsoft aren't that stupid.
But I could be wrong about all that. My buggiest application is Protel.
It is full of bugs. That said, I find it a brilliant piece of software.
[snip]
| Quote: | The expectation that one needs multi-megabyte applications, that has
been created largely by Microsoft is actually holding things up these
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I don't look at the size of an application to judge it's value. Who knows
what's in there, or wants to know.
| Quote: | days. Todays hardware, with apps written a bit better would be
unbelievably fast.
|
Yes, and nobody seems to be able to deliver. Have you tried open-office ?
Last time I checked, their spreadsheet was about 5 times slower than an
older version of Excel (2000).
But here is a great oppertunity for you. You only have to write it a
'bit' better.
--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email) |
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