| Author |
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Nick Maclaren
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Systems software versus applications software definition |
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In article <m3mzws8nui.fsf@lhwlinux.garlic.com>,
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
|>
|> something like 2167a can increase the straight-forward application
|> development costs by a factor of ten times ... and frequently this
|> sort of stuff can't be retrofitted after the fact (has to be done up
|> front before coding ever starts)
Yes and no. I obviously agree with the latter, but not the former,
which is true but incorrect in context!
If you design for failure at the start, yes, it increases the
initial cost of both design and coding. But it very often reduces
the testing cost and it usually reduces the cost of finding bugs
in the field (i.e. support and maintenance) by a large factor. I
could give many examples.
The point is that the initial coding cost is often less than that
of even the initial testing, and is almost always a small fraction
of the support and maintenance costs. However, those are almost
always indirect, and typically come out of separate budgets anyway.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren. |
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Joona I Palaste
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:17 am Post subject:
Re: Systems software versus applications software definition |
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Juhan Leemet <juhan@logicognosis.com> scribbled the following
on comp.lang.c:
| Quote: | FWIW, I seem to recall being able to multiply hex digits (rote memory, I
know) when I was crawling through IBM mainframe dumps as a uni student. I
had a professor who joked about how I was playing the front panel switches
of a PDP-8 "like a piano" when I toggled in the bootstrap loader. Ah...
|
You're much more learned than I am, then. The only thing almost a
decade of writing toy machine language programs to see what the
Commodore 64 can do has taught me in this regard is being able to
convert any integer from 0 to 255 from decimal to hexadecimal or back
in my head in a couple of seconds. Well, it amazed my little brother
for a couple of minutes.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (palaste@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-------------------------------------------------------- rules! --------/
"How can we possibly use sex to get what we want? Sex IS what we want."
- Dr. Frasier Crane |
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Systems software versus applications software definition |
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Joona I Palaste <palaste@cc.helsinki.fi> writes:
| Quote: | You're much more learned than I am, then. The only thing almost a
decade of writing toy machine language programs to see what the
Commodore 64 can do has taught me in this regard is being able to
convert any integer from 0 to 255 from decimal to hexadecimal or
back in my head in a couple of seconds. Well, it amazed my little
brother for a couple of minutes.
|
besides learning to read hex from mainframe dumps ... i also learned
to read it from the front console lights as well as the punch holes in
cards (output of assembler and compiler binary/txt decks) ... both
hex->instructions/addresses and hex->character (or in the case of
hex punch cards, holes->hex->instructions/addresses and
holes->hex->ebcdic).
In the past I had made (the mistake of?) posts about the TSM lineage
from a file backup/archive program
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#backup
that I had written for internal use that then went thru 3-4 (internal)
releases, eventually packaged as customer product called workstation
datasave facility, and then its morphing into ADSM and now TSM (tivoli
storage manager).
so a couple days ago ... i get email from somebody trying to decode a
TSM tape; included was hex dump of the first 1536 bytes off the tape
.... asking me to tell them what TSM had on the tape.
well way back in the dark ages ... you could choose your physical tape
block size ... and the "standard label" tape convention started with
three 80-byte records; vol1, hdr1, hdr2.
so the first 1536 bytes was three 512byte records ... and i recognize
the first 80 bytes of each (512byte) record as starting vol1, hdr1,
hdr2.
the hex dump had included the hex->character translation ... but for
ascii ... and of course the tsm heritage is from ebcdic mainframe
.... not ascii (aka it was the ebcdic hex for vol1, hdr1, hdr2) It
didn't even get to the TSM part of the tape data ... it was still all
the os standard label convention.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ |
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Dan Koren
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject:
Re: Systems software versus applications software definition |
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"Matt" <jrefactors@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba8a039e.0411241600.3d00f9a1@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | How do we define systems programs? when we say systems programming,
does it necessary mean that the programs we write need to interact
with hardware directly? For example, OS, compiler, kernel, drivers,
network protocols, etc...? Couple years ago, yes, I understand this is
definitely true. However, as the software applications become more and
more complicated, some people try to argue that. Some people argue the
definition of systems programs depend on the level of abstractions. I
heard people saying that web server is a systems software, which I
feel confused. I think web server is an application software. Yes,
other applications run on top of web server.
Please advise and discuss. thanks!!
|
One of the oldest jokes in this profession:
Q: What is the difference between application
programmers and system programmers?
A: The latter can make other people's programs
crash!
dk |
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