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Casper H.S. Dik
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Itanium versus Others |
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"Dan Koren" <dankoren@yahoo.com> writes:
| Quote: | Are you familiar with the concept of "immaculate conception"?
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I'm sure that theists can explain to you that "immaculate conception"
does not mean that no sex was involved in the conception.
Just that the sin generally associated with being born
(the hereditary sin) was spared here and that /her/ conception
was immaculate.
See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
Casper |
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Nick Maclaren
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Itanium versus Others |
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In article <42fb228a$0$11066$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
Casper H.S. Dik <Casper.Dik@Sun.COM> writes:
|> "Dan Koren" <dankoren@yahoo.com> writes:
|>
|> >Are you familiar with the concept of "immaculate conception"?
|>
|> I'm sure that theists can explain to you that "immaculate conception"
|> does not mean that no sex was involved in the conception.
|> Just that the sin generally associated with being born
|> (the hereditary sin) was spared here and that /her/ conception
|> was immaculate.
|>
|> See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
This is getting very off-group. I am going to point out that most
theists are not Roman Catholics, and possibly not even Christians,
and stop there.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren. |
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Jean-Marc Bourguet
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Itanium versus Others |
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Casper H.S. Dik <Casper.Dik@Sun.COM> writes:
| Quote: | "Dan Koren" <dankoren@yahoo.com> writes:
Are you familiar with the concept of "immaculate conception"?
I'm sure that theists can explain to you that "immaculate conception"
does not mean that no sex was involved in the conception.
Just that the sin generally associated with being born
(the hereditary sin) was spared here and that /her/ conception
was immaculate.
See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
|
Yes, there is confusion with the strange thing that "the Blessed
Mother of Jesus Christ was a virgin before, during, and after the
conception and birth of her Divine Son".
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15448a.htm
(I know catholic priests able to joke on the absurdity of that).
Yours,
--
Jean-Marc |
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Dan Koren
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:15 am Post subject:
Re: Itanium versus Others |
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"Jean-Marc Bourguet" <jm@bourguet.org> wrote in message
news:pxb4q9wsovf.fsf@news.bourguet.org...
| Quote: | Casper H.S. Dik <Casper.Dik@Sun.COM> writes:
"Dan Koren" <dankoren@yahoo.com> writes:
Are you familiar with the concept of "immaculate conception"?
I'm sure that theists can explain to you that "immaculate conception"
does not mean that no sex was involved in the conception.
Just that the sin generally associated with being born
(the hereditary sin) was spared here and that /her/ conception
was immaculate.
See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
Yes, there is confusion with the strange thing that "the Blessed
Mother of Jesus Christ was a virgin before, during, and after the
conception and birth of her Divine Son".
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15448a.htm
(I know catholic priests able to joke on the absurdity of that).
|
Let's get back on track.
Break is over.
dk |
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Del Cecchi
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:21 am Post subject:
Re: Itanium versus Others |
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"Casper H.S. Dik" <Casper.Dik@Sun.COM> wrote in message
news:42fb228a$0$11066$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
| Quote: | "Dan Koren" <dankoren@yahoo.com> writes:
Are you familiar with the concept of "immaculate conception"?
I'm sure that theists can explain to you that "immaculate conception"
does not mean that no sex was involved in the conception.
Just that the sin generally associated with being born
(the hereditary sin) was spared here and that /her/ conception
was immaculate.
See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
Casper
|
Thanks for the clarification. Although note that according to the
article, the immaculate conception of mary had nothing to do with the
physical act and process which happened in the normal way but to the
characteristics of her soul and what happened when it was connected to
her body, which is the moment of conception.
I didn't know that. One learns something every day.
del |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Itanium versus Others |
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Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> writes:
Right.
Some theologian was doing serious drugs. |
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Dan Koren
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:15 am Post subject:
Re: Itanium versus Others |
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"Del Cecchi" <dcecchi.nospam@att.net> wrote in message
news:3m53p7F15iadkU1@individual.net...
| Quote: |
"Casper H.S. Dik" <Casper.Dik@Sun.COM> wrote in message
news:42fb228a$0$11066$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
"Dan Koren" <dankoren@yahoo.com> writes:
Are you familiar with the concept of "immaculate conception"?
I'm sure that theists can explain to you that "immaculate conception"
does not mean that no sex was involved in the conception.
Just that the sin generally associated with being born
(the hereditary sin) was spared here and that /her/ conception
was immaculate.
See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
Casper
Thanks for the clarification. Although note that according to the
article, the immaculate conception of mary had nothing to do with the
physical act and process which happened in the normal way but to the
characteristics of her soul and what happened when it was connected to her
body, which is the moment of conception.
I didn't know that. One learns something every day.
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Especially on comp.arch! ;-)
dk |
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DonQuixote
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject:
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In my humble opinion, Intel really goofed when they came out with Itanium. They built a chip that has both a seqential instruction, 32 bit, X86 compatable mode... and a parallel (VLIW), 64 bit mode with loads of registers and a whole new ISA. In 20/20 hindsight, they should have come out with 2 chips right from the beggining. The first would have been simililar to the AMD64 but perhaps with more registers. The second would have been a simpler, dedicated VLIW processor with no compatablity mode that would connect to the 64bit X86 compatible chip through a high speed bus.
This would have allowed developers to continue to use legacy 32 bit apps as they converted to both 64 bit X86 and also specialiazed apps that benefit from a VLIW architecture. As it turned out, Itanium evolved into a 32/64 bit... serial/parallel kludge, that was delayed for years in development, ran slower than existing Pentiums in 32 bit mode, needed a massive die space, and ran very hot. The result was that the product was limited to the high end market. Software development took a long time because of the need to develop complex new complilers. Some of this is inherent in the VLIW approach to programming, but some of it could have been avoided if Intel had developed a simpler ISA.
I really think Intel engineers were so used to squeezing performance out of a CISC like the Pentium (which is a remarkable accomplishement) that they missed the point of a VLIW design, which is to keep things simple in the hardware and let the complier handle complex stuff... like register stack management for example. The Itanium ISA has many simple intructions that execute with a predictable latency. But it also has may highly complex instructions that must drive compliler writers crazy, especially when they are trying to schedule each instruction. This is purely opinion from reading over the Architecture manuals. I've never written a line of Itanium code. If there are any experienced Itanium programmers out there I'd be interested in your take on this.
You can download the Itanium manuals here... http://developer.intel.com/design/itanium/manuals/iiasdmanual.htm
From what I understand, however, Itanium still has some life left in it. I wish it well. I hate to see any architecture die when I think of the money and talent that is invested in it. I do hope that if Itanium does diie, the VLIW programming concept does not die with it. When done right, VLIW chips can provide good single thread performance with less hardware complexity. Simpler hardware means more resources can be dedicated to registers, caches, execution units, wider busses, etc. Higher single thread performance, means that software design does no need to add the complexities of multithreading to get better performance. I would relly like to see a simple, common sense VLIW chip developed that can connect to the Hyper Transport bus on the Opteron, for windows users who need to offload performance critical applications.
It may still be years before the average PC user needs 64 bit processing, but the high end market needs it now. Windows will need to go through a multi year, kludgy transition period until X86-64 is standard on all hardware, and a flat 64 bit addressing mode is standard. Right now I'm running with 512 MB and I can't imagine needing more. Of course there was a time I was happy with my 256K IBM PC.
Well I know this is a software forum and I got on my hardware soapbox. It was fun. I'd appreciate comments. |
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