| Author |
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Thierry Lacoste
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject:
simple architecture |
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What is the simplest available architecture to study
the implementation of achitecture-dependent details of
modern OS features like Virtual Memory, Context switching and the like? |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject:
Re: simple architecture |
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The simplest architecture to do the study with is "Atlas" however Atlas
is a very old machine and cannot be considered 'available' in any
reasonable way.
I suspect you best direction is to look into MIPS along about the time
frame of the R3000, or the first generation DEC 21064. Neither is all
that simple, but both are significantly simpler than anything you can
by today. Neighter is "all that available" but you might get lucky.
Both have software simulators in use at various universities, the you
might be able to leverage.
Mitch |
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del cecchi
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:57 am Post subject:
Re: simple architecture |
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<MitchAlsup@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1110563674.851507.142520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | The simplest architecture to do the study with is "Atlas" however
Atlas
is a very old machine and cannot be considered 'available' in any
reasonable way.
I suspect you best direction is to look into MIPS along about the time
frame of the R3000, or the first generation DEC 21064. Neither is all
that simple, but both are significantly simpler than anything you can
by today. Neighter is "all that available" but you might get lucky.
Both have software simulators in use at various universities, the you
might be able to leverage.
Mitch
|
How about things like 6502 or other early micros. Surely there are
emulators and simulators available. The SPC12 was really simple but
probably not that well known.
del
> |
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Thierry Lacoste
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject:
Re: simple architecture |
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| Quote: |
MitchAlsup@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1110563674.851507.142520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
The simplest architecture to do the study with is "Atlas" however
Atlas
is a very old machine and cannot be considered 'available' in any
reasonable way.
I suspect you best direction is to look into MIPS along about the time
frame of the R3000, or the first generation DEC 21064. Neither is all
that simple, but both are significantly simpler than anything you can
by today. Neighter is "all that available" but you might get lucky.
Both have software simulators in use at various universities, the you
might be able to leverage.
Mitch
How about things like 6502 or other early micros. Surely there are
emulators and simulators available. The SPC12 was really simple but
probably not that well known.
del
I learned assembly language on a 6502 and I loved it. |
I definitely agree with the fact that it is simple.
But, as I wrote in my original message I'm looking for a simple
CPU with modern features : MMU, caches, supervisor mode, etc...
The 6502 is not in that category.
My purpose is to study the lowest level of modern OSes.
I don't know the SPC12.
Thierry. |
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del cecchi
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:16 pm Post subject:
Re: simple architecture |
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"Thierry Lacoste" <th.lacoste@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:4232c29e$0$25035$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
| Quote: |
MitchAlsup@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1110563674.851507.142520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
The simplest architecture to do the study with is "Atlas" however
Atlas
is a very old machine and cannot be considered 'available' in any
reasonable way.
I suspect you best direction is to look into MIPS along about the
time
frame of the R3000, or the first generation DEC 21064. Neither is
all
that simple, but both are significantly simpler than anything you
can
by today. Neighter is "all that available" but you might get
lucky.
Both have software simulators in use at various universities, the
you
might be able to leverage.
Mitch
How about things like 6502 or other early micros. Surely there are
emulators and simulators available. The SPC12 was really simple but
probably not that well known.
del
I learned assembly language on a 6502 and I loved it.
I definitely agree with the fact that it is simple.
But, as I wrote in my original message I'm looking for a simple
CPU with modern features : MMU, caches, supervisor mode, etc...
The 6502 is not in that category.
My purpose is to study the lowest level of modern OSes.
I don't know the SPC12.
Thierry.
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SPC12 was a minicomputer from the late 60's that was much simpler than a
6502. I was chief programmer for one at Camp Hunter Liggett just west
of Jolon, California.
Seems as if a "simple cpu" and "modern features" is somewhat of a
contradiction. You could study the evolution of the IBM 360 to Z series
line. It has the advantage that an incredible amount of documents are
available for free. But there are those who would say it is neither
modern or simple.
Maybe MIPS would be appropriate if you don't like 360.
del
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Thierry Lacoste
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:21 am Post subject:
Re: simple architecture |
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| Quote: | Seems as if a "simple cpu" and "modern features" is somewhat of a
contradiction.
I'm aware of the inherent complexity of modern features. |
Let's say I'm looking for the simplest CPU with these features.
I just want to avoid "unnecessary" difficulties (e.g. those
coming from legacy support)
| Quote: | You could study the evolution of the IBM 360 to Z series
line. It has the advantage that an incredible amount of documents are
available for free. But there are those who would say it is neither
modern or simple.
Maybe MIPS would be appropriate if you don't like 360.
I will look at both. |
Thanks,
Thierry. |
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John Savard
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:43 am Post subject:
Re: simple architecture |
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Thierry Lacoste <th.lacoste@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<42307afe$0$25043$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>...
| Quote: | What is the simplest available architecture to study
the implementation of achitecture-dependent details of
modern OS features like Virtual Memory, Context switching and the like?
|
The System/360 architecture - or, rather, its modern descendants -
might be a candidate, since it is simpler than the 386 architecture.
On my own web page, at
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
there is a link to
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/arch.pdf
which describes a fictitious architecture - no implementations
available, but the description is. But although it does talk about
many computer architectural features, I will have to admit the
coverage of context switching is weak. It has register renaming, so I
will have to explicitly differentiate the cases of interrupts when the
register set is shared and when it is different - low-end
implementations may not have the register renaming feature. Also, it
isn't simple. Yet even though it has a grotesquely baroque instruction
set, trying to include every feature from a wide selection of ancient
computers as well as modern ones, the description - perhaps due to
oversimplifications on my part - is far easier to understand than most
modern-day processor manuals.
Perhaps you would be better off studying the PowerPC or the SPARC. The
MIPS architecture was used by Cray as the basis for their vector chip
in the top-of-the-line X1, so that might be one of interest, since it
goes all the way from personal organizers to supercomputers.
John Savard |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:48 am Post subject:
Re: simple architecture |
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Thierry Lacoste wrote:
| Quote: | What is the simplest available architecture to study
the implementation of achitecture-dependent details of
modern OS features like Virtual Memory, Context switching and the
like? |
http://www.lysator.liu.se/local/datorhandbok/SunHardwareFAQ.html
....the 68020? If you have practice with a 6502, you probably were
around for the Amiga and Atari ST days too. I used to run NetBSD on an
old Amiga a long time ago so it is doable. (Well, for the non-68000
machines it is as the 68000 doesn't support an MMU.)
-t |
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Jeff Kenton
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:37 pm Post subject:
Re: simple architecture |
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bybell@rocketmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Thierry Lacoste wrote:
What is the simplest available architecture to study
the implementation of achitecture-dependent details of
modern OS features like Virtual Memory, Context switching and the
like?
http://www.lysator.liu.se/local/datorhandbok/SunHardwareFAQ.html
...the 68020? If you have practice with a 6502, you probably were
around for the Amiga and Atari ST days too. I used to run NetBSD on an
old Amiga a long time ago so it is doable. (Well, for the non-68000
machines it is as the 68000 doesn't support an MMU.)
-t
|
I prefer any of the RISC processors when I think of "simple". MIPS has been
mentioned. I always liked the Motorola 88000 also. |
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